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Location: Jonquil City (aka Smyrna) Georgia- by Atlanta
16,259 posts, read 24,758,986 times
Reputation: 3587
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Well they are at it again. If there is one thing the conservatives know how to do it is to tell a LIE. And they are good at it. Tell a lie over and over and long enough and soon people will think the lie is the truth.
Now they are trashing FDR and the New Deal with this line: "the New Deal and FDR'S government spending did not bring us out of the Depression but World War II did".
This of course is a LIE and if you think about it logically, it is also STUPID. The fact is that, even before WW2 unemployment had fallen over 10% from the time FDR took office until WW2. Yes, it was high at 14% but that was a hell of alot better than 25% when he took office. So while it did not "end" the Depression, it was on the way to doing so.
Secondly, how is it that WW2 "ended the Depression"? It is not because of the war but because of the GOVERNMENT SPENDING on the war! It was because the US Government was spending 25% of GDP on tanks, guns, planes, ships and everything else! It does not matter if the government is spending on guns or on bridges and schools- it is still government spending that creates jobs in the economy!
The difference here is a critical one- war spending does not have any future multiplier. Once you buy a tank, it is either destroyed in the war or mothballed after the war. It does not have an ongoing benefit to the country or to the economy. If you build a highway, bridge or school, that has a great multiplier to the economy. People continue to use that for economic activity AFTER the project is finished. It leads to permanent employment of highway workers, state police officers, teachers, firefighters and paramedics. It leads of private employment of warehouse workers, truck drivers and others.
So Obama really has the right idea here. He is effectively having a WW 2 spending program- without the war itself!
Quite true Kevk. I started a thread on this before an the pro-new deal people, I think are right. Also, there are other examples of stimuli that helped economies in the past, like the Marshall Plan. And further removed from us, the EU pumped tons of money into Ireland and Spain and that's credited with making them prosperous, developed nations.
Stimuli CAN work, IF it's done right. I just hope to God this was done right!
We began selling weapons to Germany and Great Britain around 1937, which offered the first boost to our exports, and the first relief in our unemployment rates. The problem was that the New Deal only offered temporary jobs that were soon to expire by the late 30s. This is where the conspiracy theory that FDR let the tragedy at Pearl Harbor occur comes in, in order to get American support for the war. There has never been any other effective method of pulling us out of economic slumps than wars or deregulation.
So yes, World War II certainly marked the end of the depression, and in the following post war boom we experienced unemployment rates so low that they were never matched again until the Reagan years.
So in reality, it is not a lie, but rather a truth that some people will not accept.
And for the record, technically a tank can have value after war, it can always be scrapped and made into something else. A lot of different goods can be re-manufactured from tanks..
Secondly, how is it that WW2 "ended the Depression"? It is not because of the war but because of the GOVERNMENT SPENDING on the war! It was because the US Government was spending 25% of GDP on tanks, guns, planes, ships and everything else! It does not matter if the government is spending on guns or on bridges and schools- it is still government spending that creates jobs in the economy!
So are you effectively saying that the spending on the war in Iraq was a good thing then?
Conservative Republicans are the true scum of the earth, it started with Nixon, became accepted during the Reagan administration and we are just seeing the effects of their actions during the Bush era
Lets hope some how the Republican greed and dispicability will come to an end, these people have no role in any future humanity, it is a shame we cant do something about them as far as punishing them, but hopefully more people wake up, hopefully in a few years Fox News will have to go off the air because people will see what it really is, sadly there are still millions of people who are brainwashed by these people
We wandered so far into the quagmire of speculative bubbles and an unsupportable FIRE economy that recovery and recreation of the investment/production economy will take a decade. I expect the current measures will bring enough of a working class recovery that we will reelect Obama and then do the rest of the job of harnessing Wall Street for the benefit of all of us not just the executive/financier class.
Of course Republicans and their conservative backers lie about the New Deal and everything else. I expect them to lie. If they told the truth about their economic and political plans they would be completely rejected by the people of the US as self serving big business monopolists they are.
Conservative Republicans are the true scum of the earth, it started with Nixon, became accepted during the Reagan administration and we are just seeing the effects of their actions during the Bush era
Lets hope some how the Republican greed and dispicability will come to an end, these people have no role in any future humanity, it is a shame we cant do something about them as far as punishing them, but hopefully more people wake up, hopefully in a few years Fox News will have to go off the air because people will see what it really is, sadly there are still millions of people who are brainwashed by these people
To bad my tax dollars payed for your education. I want a refund.
Well they are at it again. If there is one thing the conservatives know how to do it is to tell a LIE. And they are good at it. Tell a lie over and over and long enough and soon people will think the lie is the truth.
Now they are trashing FDR and the New Deal with this line: "the New Deal and FDR'S government spending did not bring us out of the Depression but World War II did".
This of course is a LIE and if you think about it logically, it is also STUPID. The fact is that, even before WW2 unemployment had fallen over 10% from the time FDR took office until WW2. Yes, it was high at 14% but that was a hell of alot better than 25% when he took office. So while it did not "end" the Depression, it was on the way to doing so.
Secondly, how is it that WW2 "ended the Depression"? It is not because of the war but because of the GOVERNMENT SPENDING on the war! It was because the US Government was spending 25% of GDP on tanks, guns, planes, ships and everything else! It does not matter if the government is spending on guns or on bridges and schools- it is still government spending that creates jobs in the economy!
The difference here is a critical one- war spending does not have any future multiplier. Once you buy a tank, it is either destroyed in the war or mothballed after the war. It does not have an ongoing benefit to the country or to the economy. If you build a highway, bridge or school, that has a great multiplier to the economy. People continue to use that for economic activity AFTER the project is finished. It leads to permanent employment of highway workers, state police officers, teachers, firefighters and paramedics. It leads of private employment of warehouse workers, truck drivers and others.
So Obama really has the right idea here. He is effectively having a WW 2 spending program- without the war itself!
There's nothing new about this interpretation of history. Harry Truman heard it every day.
To bad my tax dollars payed for your education. I want a refund.
You guys live in the same neighborhood? You should get together for brunch!
Last edited by Reads2MUCH; 02-19-2009 at 11:52 AM..
Reason: correction
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