What's wrong with the Confederate Flag? (regime, revolution, bias, Virginia)

[Cosmic]

The main thing that is wrong, it probably was made in China. And maybe not even Southern China at that.

[ColdCanadian]

Originally Posted by Steve-o

But at the same time they oppressed an entire human race, treated them like animals.

That's not entirely accurate.
Not all black people were slaves in the south before the war. There were even some black people wealthy enough to own slaves themselves. Most black people were probably slaves, and I believe a lot of the slaves were mistreated, but some weren't.

[carolinajack]

just like I support the gays or those who are anglophiles to fly the rainbow or the union jack, the confederate flag should have place as well.

the union jack is a symbol of oppression, colonial rule, slavery(it enslaved many people here before it was independent as well as around the globe). but we allow people to fly it. the rainbow flag is offensive to many people as a symbol of gay pride, hedonism, immorality(to some) but they are allow to fly it--and I will fight for their right of expression, just as I fight for the right of millions of white southerners who love that flag and probably hate me because of my black skin. Because we live is a free society, where somethings may offend, but to others it may be a source of pride.

i see all the bumperstickers that are treasonous in this country, attack the president(whether it be Bush or Clinton), i see attacks for and against gay marriage, i see, pro life and pro abortion bumper stickers---we need to get over the pettiness of a piece of cloth or paper and start solving real problems facing our country.

Originally Posted by carolinajack

as a South Carolinian and black southerner, I dont have a problem with it in a museum, on historic grounds or on state property, I know it symbolizes heritage and history.

what i am even more perplexed by is that people think there is a problem with a person sticking a flag or a bumper sticker of a rebel flag on their personal vehicle. Do those same persons mind if the govt or others demand and make them take off a t shirt or button that is offensive to others, or how about banning earrings on men or tatoos, or al speech???

so those people think we should ban free expression on our private property?? that is scary and certainly not a state or country i want to live in--now the Red State Mentality makes more sense to me and conservativism the ONLY way to stop communist authoritarianism

I (and most of the people here) seem to dislike the flag being placed on trucks, etc. but I don't recall anyone asking for it to be banned.

And I'm glad that isn't my heritage or history, and if it was I sure wouldn't want to remember it by flying that flag.

[carolinajack]

coldcanadian, you are so right. There were free blacks in Charleston, New Orleans, Natchez MS, Atlanta, Richmond and many other southern states. The richest man in Mississippi prior to the war was a black business man in Natchez Miss. He was called the barber of Natchez and owned slaves himself.

also, there were free black men in all of the colonies before independence--there is a new book about Jamestown that highlights this as well as books about freemen of color.

sadly our public educational systems is so pathetic in the US that they do not teach the facts, only what they can cram into a government issued textbook

[carolinajack]

but the fact that it is not YOUR truck is the issue. I may not want your car to be blue and driving in my neighborhood between tuesdays and thursday from 8am and 12pm. but what the heck is it of my business what color your car is and where you choose to drive it.

next you will be saying you dont like blacks or asians driving cars but you cant ban it

Originally Posted by carolinajack

but the fact that it is not YOUR truck is the issue. I may not want your car to be blue and driving in my neighborhood between tuesdays and thursday from 8am and 12pm. but what the heck is it of my business what color your car is and where you choose to drive it.

next you will be saying you dont like blacks or asians driving cars but you cant ban it

Why do you keep bringing up banning? I said I don't like it, I NEVER, EVER said they should not be able to do it. I strongly believe they should have the right to do it, I just personally dislike it. Actually read what I post and stop replying to statements I never made.

On a side note, this should probably be moved to "Politics and Other Controversies".

[anonymous]

I think the part about 'banning the flag' is a reference to the NAACP boycott in South Carolina, because the flag sits on a Confederate monument outside the statehouse.

And I'm no historian, but in reference to the discussion of the flag's Scotch-Irish heritage.. what is Scotch-Irish? There were Scottish people, and there were Irish people. Scottish people were protestants from the highlands of Great Britain, who settled mostly in the upland south. Irish people were Catholics from Ireland, who settled mostly between Maryland and New England. The confederate battle flag was based on St. Andrew's Cross, which is the Scottish flag, not the Irish.

I think the confederate flag should carry some signifigance to southerners of scottish descent (which I am), but I don't think they should feel obligated to fly it.

[Naya01]

This may be a little long, sorry. Me and my boyfriend actually just talked about this three days or so ago.

Well, the Confederate Flag symbolizes so much hate, specifically a hate towards a people who I share a common ancestry with. I understand that for many the Confederate Flag is something that they're proud of. It shows the individual's pride in their ancestors...possibly just in regard to the fact that they have ancestors who fought in the Civil War. However, it can still be an emotional issue because while it may be a symbol of that...the connotation is a symbol of the institution of slavery and/or Jim Crow Laws (segregation). Although I'm not African American and I do not claim to be I am also 100% certain that no one (for the most part) is able to tell me a apart from someone who is African American. And that's fine. I do not have a problem with that. It's harder to tell the ethnic difference within larger racial groups. No more than I could probably tell someone who is Dutch from someone who is German unless they have noticeable accents. I do not expect someone to be able to differentiate that I am not African American but Afro-Caribbean or Afro-Latina. I perhaps can tell the difference between someone who is Afro-Caribbean, African-American, African or Afro-Latina, etc but I've grown up around the different groups so I have an unfair advantage. That being said, the fact that I am not African American doesn't save me from the racism that may or may not be intended for them. I have had many bad experiences with race issues in this country...in many countries...especially down South in America. Granted, there have been a few times where people finding out that I wasn't African American has probably saved me from a fight or two...but usually they're intrigued but not impressed. Because at the end of the day for many people all "Black" people fall under the same category.....a ******. It is sad but terribly true. So that pretty much draws me into the struggle that many African Americans face because I'm no better than they are when it comes to this. I'm in the same category which makes me as much a part of their struggle as they are. Granted my history doesn't involve being enslaved in America. However, the Africans from the Trans Atlantic Slave Trade were taken to South America, the Caribbean, East Asia and parts of Europe as well. So slavery is still an ugly mark on my history as well as theirs. And to see someone who possibly stands for that, believes that its right or feels that perhaps segregation should be the way of life for all...that not only upsets me but it hurts as well. Because that person goes against everything I stand for and/or believe in. It tells me that person hates me and everyone who is related to me or looks like me without knowing me because of the greater amount of melanin prevalent in me.

Sure, I'm probably being a tad bit dramatic. The person displaying the flag might not even know the history behind it or think anything of it. But the fact remains that for people who do know their histories it hurts. People need to realize how their actions can really effect someone else. I have always stated that in schools, especially schools that have a high homogeneity rate of one group over all others cultural sensitivity classes should be taken. How do you know what hurts or offends someone else if you don't know them and aren't around them? You don't. You can't. And I realize that for the most part White Americans get a pretty bum deal as far as stereotyping goes. I realize that what a lot of people mistake automatically as someone being racist is just someone really having no clue in life about that person and being curious or someone simply having pride in their heritage. I realize that now although I do admit that I hadn't before and most people will never understand that. However, it's still painful to so many people that I hate to see the flag anywhere...ever.

[Hatless Wonder]

I'm Black, and my famly is from the South. Until I learned about the Civil War, I associated the Confederate flag with the "The Dukes of Hazard." For many people, the Confederate Flag is a symbol of oppression and slavery, not heritage. Georgia removed the "Stars and Bars" from its state flag beofre the 1996 Olympics because they didn't want to be seen as "backwards."

Symbols change. The swastika started out as a Buddhist symbol for luck. A lot of old cemeteries in China have gravestons with swastikas. When Hitler co-opted the swastika, it became a symbol of hatred and mass murder. You could argue that the Nazi flag is a symbol of German heritage, but I don't think anyone else would agree with you.

I don't care if someone wants to fly a Confederate flag on their property or their truck (and it's always a truck), but it doesn't belong on state property.