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Well, I know my Dad never "forgave" Jane Fonda for her brand of expression. My senior year of high school I had a Civics teacher who graduated from UC Berserkley that was requiring our class to watch Jane Fonda in "Coming Home" as a class project in studying Viet Nam. I refused to participate because of what my Father had told me of ol' Jane's actions of the period and because of what I had witnessed as a youngster when Dad came back from his last tour in 69. I was told I would watch the movie and participate in the project or recieve an F for the quarter. I wouldn't do it. Long story short we ended up coming up with an alternate assignment for me. I had to write a report on what I thought went wrong in Viet Nam. That I was willing to do. I will not watch ANYTHING with that woman in it to this day. Lol, the things my Dad said about her are not fit to repeat in this venue. But they are ...colorful, to say the least.
He had every right to hold his opinion, and I'm glad you found a way around the issue at school. Something tells me that teacher learned something as well.
Another anecdotal story; My dear freind and fellow vet stood at the small town NC bus stop waiting for her daddy to come home from war. A woman in black shoes, purple dress, and a daisy hat (representing the baptist community) waited right beside her. She remembers wondering why the black shoes in summer because the customary dress in those days dictated otherwise.
When her dad stepped off that bus this lady spat at him, called him a murderer and a sinner. She & her cohorts proceeded to treat everyone stepping off that bus similarly. That memory is as clear in her mind today as if it happened yesterday. Needless to say she hasn't a high opinion of those kinds of baptists, and there was no room in her heart to allow ignorant 'god fearing' adults to interfere with the high opinion of her daddy.
To all feeling the need to point fingers:
Shall we string up all baptists?
Shall we abolish all military members right to have any opinion about politics or the direction our country is being steered?
Shall EVERY vietnam vet who spoke out against the war, about injustice, abuses of power, about pointless horror or manifestly insane missions be labeled a traitor? How about every vietnam vet protesting the war throwing their medals on the ground in dishonor retroactively having their record of conduct cancelled out? How about we force them to choke down their horror stories and only tell shiny happy stories that support the propaganda du jour???
How about present time soldiers returning and speaking out against unsound policies going on in Iraq? Ineffectual policies on the ground in Afghanistan? Are those who testify against abu ghraib disloyal??? To whom and to what? USCMJ says otherwise.
Shall we claim that any republicans who were opposed to iraq be declared mentally unfit for office, traitors, disloyal to the military? Ron Paul is a weak kneed pacifist liberally liberal wimp for having a dissenting view???
The logic used among many posters in this thread betrays very disturbing unamerican sentiments. Odd to see those who consider themselves to be the most patriotic embracing facism wholeheartedly. The moment they lose an argument they resort to name calling, pouting or bullying. Again, you represent WHAT and WHOM?
CO were standing over your shoulder you'd be smacked upside the head for conduct unbecoming. Since when are military members permitted to attack fellow citizens verbally or otherwise??? Hiding behind a uniform instead of filling one out? No surpise to me considering Bush empty suit for 8 yrs. Would you be so intellectually fragile as to be unable to consider any idea you weren't fed by your prefered like minded media HOA, why not just hide out in that cave and avoid the big bad blogs where people are expected to consider alternative views?
Democracy can withstand both scrutiny and criticism, and thrives on free exchange of ideas. Anyone fearfully believing otherwise is declaring themselves unwilling to be american in my ears. Any soldier coming back from Iraq and Afghanistan of either opinion has my ear equally and will not be spit upon by me for being critical or confident of the ongoing missions. Noise I hear in this thread from <alleged> vets, I can't say you won't be as ignorant as some backwater baptist group. I want the best for them, which at bare minimum means a sound mission statement w/clear objectives. Anything less is failure of our nations leadership, answerable to we the people (vet or not). Anyone selling them down the river for the sake of ANY blind loyalty political affinity... congrats on leaving your country vulnerable to power hungry politicos stroking you off.
Vietnam era vets want attention? You're needy? You want 2009 to be about you and distract us away from Iraq & Afghanistan? Your behavior speaks for itself. The more you've harped & carried on tantrums (so very different from fellow whining narcissistic hippies, eh?), the more box office seats will be sold as Mui pointed out. The more politically motivated backstabing of service members, the more you've dishonored the very service and country you claim to love. Considering most of that era should be great grandfathers by now, don't you suppose it's high time you put your big boy panties on and grew the hell up before they're old enough to bust you on your own BS?
The moment they lose an argument they resort to name calling, pouting or bullying.
Point of order: I see that from all sides of the fence, and frankly get the impression that few can see it or will admit to it from "their" side. It's only the other guy who does that.
Generally, to sum up my .02 on this, if I haven't before (if I have pardon the repeat): To say the Vietnam war was horribly managed is a gross understatement. But Fonda was (is?) a self-rightous ass who simply didn't know wtf she was talking about and made about as much sense as the average soldier lecturing her on how to act. She deserves the contempt she gets from veterans, plus change.
Personally, I don't hold Jane Fonda in any regard at all, I've moved beyond the contempt I use to have for her. I feel that a number of post on this thread were made by people who were not even born during this time. The Vietnam war was the first war fought in Americans living rooms every night on the news. You didn't get to see the "other" side of the war, the things that the North Vietnamese Army did to there own people. But as a young man fighting this war I was exposed to it, I could never get it out of my mind why they treated there own people so badly. Coming into a village to where the NVA had just been a few hours earlier and seeing the horrors they inflicted upon these people. men, women and children no one escaped their wrath.
It's been 40 years since my experience in that country, but I still see the faces of those people, but unless you have walked in the boots of the soldiers that served there, you have no idea of even how to relate.
Personally, I don't hold Jane Fonda in any regard at all, I've moved beyond the contempt I use to have for her. I feel that a number of post on this thread were made by people who were not even born during this time. The Vietnam war was the first war fought in Americans living rooms every night on the news. You didn't get to see the "other" side of the war, the things that the North Vietnamese Army did to there own people. But as a young man fighting this war I was exposed to it, I could never get it out of my mind why they treated there own people so badly. Coming into a village to where the NVA had just been a few hours earlier and seeing the horrors they inflicted upon these people. men, women and children no one escaped their wrath.
It's been 40 years since my experience in that country, but I still see the faces of those people, but unless you have walked in the boots of the soldiers that served there, you have no idea of even how to relate.
First, thank you for your service to our country, you've seen and lived through things that civilians will never experience, nor in all likelyhood comprehend.
Should VN vets forgive Jane? It's their choice and no one elses. I detest those that dare to speak for them and say to forgive and forget. I'm not a vet and still consider her a traitorist *****, I can't imagine a vet's feelings on the issue.
The treatment that VN vets received from all to many in this country stands as one of the most disgraceful points in this countries history. I have no issue with debating or even protesting the war, but take it to the elected leaders of the country that got us there. Kennedy deserves most of the blame for getting us in that mess, followed up with LBJ and Nixon. If there is contempt to be shown for VN it lies with those 3 individuals, not with those that fought and in all too many cases died for their country.
Vietnam vets protest Jane Fonda's Broadway showing
Vietnam vets protest Jane Fonda's Broadway showing (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090221/ap_en_ce/people_jane_fonda_1 - broken link)
NEW YORK – It's been decades, but Jane Fonda still can't shake her "Hanoi Jane" image from the Vietnam War.
About a dozen Vietnam veterans and other protesters on Saturday picketed the theater where the 71-year-old actress is starring in the Broadway play "33 Variations," telling passers-by that she had once visited their Viet Cong enemy in Hanoi.
Should America's Vietnam veterans forgive Lyndon Johnson, General Westmoreland, and Richard Nixon?
It's the way Hanoi Jane broke the spirt of American GI over there. She sh-- on the flag we were trying to defend.
It's too bad 58,000 lives were sacrificed to defend a piece of cloth.
Unknown to many now, there was a large organization of Vietnam veterans against the war in Vietnam. Their most dramatic showing showing was the day many walked (some in wheelchairs) past the White House and tossed their combat medals over the fence.
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USCMJ says otherwise.
You want 2009 to be about you and distract us away from Iraq & Afghanistan? Your behavior speaks for itself. The more you've harped & carried on tantrums (so very different from fellow whining narcissistic hippies, eh?), the more box office seats will be sold as Mui pointed out. The more politically motivated backstabing of service members, the more you've dishonored the very service and country you claim to love. Considering most of that era should be great grandfathers by now, don't you suppose it's high time you put your big boy panties on and grew the hell up before they're old enough to bust you on your own BS?
