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Old 03-02-2009, 10:50 AM
 
Location: T or C New Mexico
2,600 posts, read 2,324,490 times
Reputation: 607

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Quote:
Originally Posted by arctichomesteader View Post
Most police departments have machine guns available for their use, which far outgun pistols and semi-autos anyday. Coincidentally, many of the guns the mexican drug smugglers have they got from the corrupt mexican police and military.
maybe available, but not carried in the cruisers such as the riot (guns) shotguns.
mexican/american border violence is on the rise.
american state department has warned americans about visiting mexico for spring breaks/vacations, etc..
met a hunter in the caballo mountains yesterday. he was hunting coyote, armed with a AR-15 & scope.
didn't think people hunted with an assault rifle, but they do.
I think the concern of people (politicians) possessing assault rifles is because of criminals using these weapons against other citizens and our police departments.
you can please some of the people some of the time, but you can't please all of the people all of the time.
while I personally would defend a american citizen's right to bear arms, I think it's a shame that these types of weapons fall into the wrong hands. what to do about it? gun registration doesn't work. criminals don't register guns. does the government propose punishing the entire population because of a few bad apples? sure is a touchy subject. so are pedophiles, what to do with those? sometimes government solutions to problems aren't always the best.
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Old 03-02-2009, 11:02 AM
 
Location: Arizona
5,407 posts, read 7,794,317 times
Reputation: 1198
Quote:
Originally Posted by arctichomesteader View Post
The Big Lie of the Assault Weapons Ban - Los Angeles Times

NRA-ILA :: Semi-Automatic Firearms and the “Assault Weapon” Issue (http://www.nraila.org/Issues/factsheets/read.aspx?ID=238 - broken link)

FBI study. Cited and quoted there. The FBI was required to study the effects of the ban and they could find no effect on crime.
Ahhh, so now a government study is credible to you. How convenient.

Your analysis that all weapons used today in the drug wars along the border are 1970 and 1980 Soviet Era relics and US Government weapons from the Reagan CIA/contra efforts against the Sandanistas is laughable. And aside from your one dubiuos article you have offered nothing in the way of evidence to support your hypothesis.
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Old 03-02-2009, 12:22 PM
 
Location: The Woods
18,358 posts, read 26,493,154 times
Reputation: 11351
Quote:
Originally Posted by bily4 View Post
Ahhh, so now a government study is credible to you. How convenient.

Your analysis that all weapons used today in the drug wars along the border are 1970 and 1980 Soviet Era relics and US Government weapons from the Reagan CIA/contra efforts against the Sandanistas is laughable. And aside from your one dubiuos article you have offered nothing in the way of evidence to support your hypothesis.
You're putting words in my mouth but that's how the antis operate, deception, lies and propaganda.

So, where is your rebuttal to the fact that the original AWB did nothing to affect crime?
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Old 03-02-2009, 12:24 PM
 
Location: The Woods
18,358 posts, read 26,493,154 times
Reputation: 11351
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
The first article talks about homicide rates in general, and not ones committed with AWs, and the other one is NRA web site.

I got nothing against NRA, and I am happy with ATF statistics proving that the differences were minimal. So small that you can't draw a definite conclusion that the ban did anything useful.
Did you miss this in the first link?

Quote:
Research funded by the Justice Department under the Clinton administration concluded only that the effect of the assault weapons ban on gun violence “has been uncertain.” The authors of that report released their updated findings last August, looking at crime data from 1982 through 2000 (which covered the first six years of the federal law). The latest version stated: “We cannot clearly credit the ban with any of the nation’s recent drop in gun violence.”
Check the sources cited by the NRA article for more info.
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Old 03-02-2009, 12:35 PM
 
Location: Florida
76,975 posts, read 47,621,806 times
Reputation: 14806
Quote:
Originally Posted by arctichomesteader View Post
Did you miss this in the first link?

Check the sources cited by the NRA article for more info.
You mean the opinion piece by Mr John Lott? Yes, I read it. Why? It appears your sources and my sources are more or less in agreement, so I don't think I need to verify the NRA sources.
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Old 03-02-2009, 01:40 PM
 
Location: Arizona
5,407 posts, read 7,794,317 times
Reputation: 1198
Quote:
Originally Posted by arctichomesteader View Post
You're putting words in my mouth but that's how the antis operate, deception, lies and propaganda.

So, where is your rebuttal to the fact that the original AWB did nothing to affect crime?
I have no rebuttal and it may very well be true. I like to deal with facts and evidence as they are presented. If the FBI did a quality study and this is the research they came up with, that works just fine for me.

Likewise, when every government and law enforcement agency on either side of the border is telling me that 90% of the weapons used by the drug cartels come from the USA, I tend to give that credence as well.

I don't like to cherrypick when it suits my personal agenda.
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Old 03-02-2009, 03:11 PM
 
Location: North Cackelacky....in the hills.
19,567 posts, read 21,868,498 times
Reputation: 2519
Quote:
Originally Posted by bily4 View Post
Ahhh, so now a government study is credible to you. How convenient.

Your analysis that all weapons used today in the drug wars along the border are 1970 and 1980 Soviet Era relics and US Government weapons from the Reagan CIA/contra efforts against the Sandanistas is laughable. And aside from your one dubiuos article you have offered nothing in the way of evidence to support your hypothesis.
Could you elaborate as to how YOU can differentiate between an AK made in 1975 and one made last year?

Thanks EVER so much...
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Old 03-02-2009, 03:12 PM
 
Location: North Cackelacky....in the hills.
19,567 posts, read 21,868,498 times
Reputation: 2519
Ohhh.... and don't 'forget' about those pesku hand grenades.

Where DO they come from???????
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Old 03-02-2009, 04:22 PM
 
Location: Portland, Oregon
5,299 posts, read 8,255,561 times
Reputation: 3809
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike from back east View Post
Here's just one reason: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/26/us/26borders.html?hp

Seems the USA is nothing but an arms bazaar for the Mexican Drug cartels, who buy AK-47's from shady dealers (like the one in the NYTimes article) or private owners and ship them over the border to Mexico, where thousands of people have been murdered in the past two years.
We should be concerned because it's spilling over into the U.S. Phoenix police report an average of one abduction a day linked to Mexican crime. A business woman and her daughter were kidnapped in San Diego. Sixty Minutes reported last night that these cartels are not only going into San Diego, Texas and Phoenix, they're also in non border states.
Clip:
Armed kidnappers snatch victims from cars and even a local shopping mall across the Phoenix valley for ransom, turning the sun-baked city into the "kidnap capital" of the United States.
Execution style murders, violent home invasions, and a spiraling kidnap rate in Phoenix -- where police reported an average of one abduction a day last year linked to Mexican crime -- are not the only examples along the border.
Print Story: U.S. rattled as Mexico drug war bleeds over border - Yahoo! News (http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20090301/ts_nm/us_usa_mexico_drugs/print;_ylt=AtwNjxBZXtNoNwAVyPAuwJZg.3QA;_ylu=X3oDM TB1MjgxN2UzBHBvcwMxNARzZWMDdG9vbHMtdG9wBHNsawNwcml udA-- - broken link)
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Old 03-02-2009, 04:37 PM
 
Location: NorthTexas
634 posts, read 1,558,598 times
Reputation: 327
On 60 minutes they said that the assault weapons are going to Mexico. So I guess since all the drug dealers in Mexico and the US will have AW I better go get one too!
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