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Seems to me no matter how the tax structure is or was the rich have always stayed rich. During recessions they get hit and wealth distribution changes slightly in favor of the little people but whenever it starts backup we stay in the same trends.... New Deal... Reagonomics... etc. So it would seem okay to say that Our country has grown on the backs of those rich people and poor. Any attempt to change it and apparently the rich just curtail around it. That includes government and private....
I really wish we'd all stop talking about the rich and poor as if they are different species! We need to take a hard look at ourselves. How did the rich at rich? Why are the poor poor? Take a look at the list of 'new' millionaires. Most of them are not blue blood. In fact a disproportionate amount are first generation immigrants. I'll count myself in as one here. We as a society have created a doomed class of 'poor' people by treating them as a bunch of invalid. Let's stop throwing money at them. Let's show them how to be rich.
In your opinion, which may not have anything to do with reality.
Far from mere opinion and inextricably cemented in reality.
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent
If you dispute the facts presented in the paper, why don't you contact the author? The author's contact information is clearly included in the link.
Yes, but his source for the claim in question is not. How odd...
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent
Every time you spew your protests of the facts that an author has researched and presented, you never go to the source to research the information their conclusions are based on to resolve the dispute - you just spew your opinion.
In this case, I am already familiar with the source materials that the author did not link to, and my familiarity with them is what leads me to suspect that the omission of a citation for his claim was not merely accidental...
I would make the distinction between those who became rich by predatory and harmful actions versus productive, harmless actions.
The problem is compounded by popular misconceptions about what is predatory and what is productive.
A builder / owner of a factory (or machine) that massively multiplies labor and thus produces more for less, is certainly a harmless producer. His wealth is not based on imposing suffering upon other people.
A usurer / corporationist is not in the same league. Usury is a scam, known for over 3500 years. Each generation has to learn the hard way, that usurers invariably destroy the civilization they infest. And those who enjoy limited liability, seeking gain without responsibility for the harm they inflict, are also suspect.
Unfortunately, harmless producers and harmful predators are jumbled together, so it's often hard to discern the wolves among the sheep. But once bitten, you'll know if your sheep or not.
guess what, they provide food that I trade money to them to get food that I eat.
Guess what, the government provides public goods and servcies that you utilize every day. Taxes are the money you trade to them for those. Many of those goods and services are indivisible, so there is no discrete point-of-sale at which payment could be demanded. This creates incentives for the unscrupulous to become freeloaders. That's why payment of your share of the costs is made mandatory through taxes...
Is it any surprise the people that create jobs, write laws and in general own all the wealth and can influence the other two can and circumvent regulations, laws, taxes?
Something else to note...
Percentage of wealth held by the Top 10% of the adult populationin various Western countries
Switzerland 71.3%
United States 69.8%
Denmark 65.0%
France 61.0%
Sweden 58.6%
UK 56%
Canada 53%
Norway 50.5%
Germany 44.4%
Finland 42.3%
Source is from the same sociology dept. previously posted.
Location: The Chatterdome in La La Land, CaliFUNia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saganista
In the same sense that the grocery store "steals" all that money from you at the end of the checkout line each week in order to pay their suppliers and employees...
The difference is that shoppers choose a specific grocery store to shop from a myriad of choices. In walking distance alone, I have two grocery stores I can choose to shop at. If one grocery store does not meet my needs or if the prices are too high, then I am free to take my grocery money elsewhere. With government taxation, you have no choice where your money goes and you are required by law to pay taxes. Take the public school system, for example. Your tax dollars is paying for your kid to attend the public school within the district you live in. If that school is not performing, then you are either stuck or have to pay out of pocket for a private school on top of the tax dollars you already paid to support the underperforming school district.
Location: The Chatterdome in La La Land, CaliFUNia
39,031 posts, read 23,016,954 times
Reputation: 36027
Quote:
Originally Posted by saganista
Not that interesting. Like anyone, I try to keep my taxes to the legal minimum, but not being some self-deceiving, self-centered Republican schmuuck, I can easily see that the economy and society would be better off if that legal minimum were higher. As it used to be. I have everything I need, and I have everything I want, and I still have huge piles of money sitting around that I have to think up stuff to do with. Then along comes Bushie and starts handing me extra thousands upon thousands of dollars every year. I don't need that money. The people that he took it from do. It's past time to be giving it back.
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If you don't feel as if you are paying enough taxes, then there is nothing preventing you from sending Uncle Sam an extra check each month to cover the difference since you feel so strongly about this.
Location: The Chatterdome in La La Land, CaliFUNia
39,031 posts, read 23,016,954 times
Reputation: 36027
Quote:
Originally Posted by HereinDenver
I really wish we'd all stop talking about the rich and poor as if they are different species! We need to take a hard look at ourselves. How did the rich at rich? Why are the poor poor? Take a look at the list of 'new' millionaires. Most of them are not blue blood. In fact a disproportionate amount are first generation immigrants. I'll count myself in as one here. We as a society have created a doomed class of 'poor' people by treating them as a bunch of invalid. Let's stop throwing money at them. Let's show them how to be rich.
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That is one of the most absurd things I've heard in a long time!!! 
