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Let's all discuss in a non-partisan dialogue. That's all I want saganista. You are obviously very intelligent and I believe that you want what is best for this country. I hope that you believe the same about me. I certainly want this country to succeed, and I'm not into bashing the other party in any means. We all have our differences, but isn't that what diversity is all about?
The search for truth is not an easy one. Diversity of opinion is a welcome thing indeed, so long as each variant may be deemed rationally derived from as close as one could get to verifiable fact. Many opinions...some seen in this very thread...fail that test. In fact, there are those habituating P&OC whose every opinion seems to fail that test. These do not seem to me to be equally apportioned across the political spectrum, hence it may be difficult at times to criticize errancy without seeming to be partisan. Let one honest opinion stand against another and their differences be the source of responsible debate and dialogue. But don't tolerate easily the slugs and impostors and intellectual wooden nickels of the world. This is some days how I see things...
The search for truth is not an easy one. Diversity of opinion is a welcome thing indeed, so long as each variant may be deemed rationally derived from as close as one could get to verifiable fact. Many opinions...some seen in this very thread...fail that test. In fact, there are those habituating P&OC whose every opinion seems to fail that test. These do not seem to me to be equally apportioned across the political spectrum, hence it may be difficult at times to criticize errancy without seeming to be partisan. Let one honest opinion stand against another and their differences be the source of responsible debate and dialogue. But don't tolerate easily the slugs and impostors and intellectual wooden nickels of the world. This is some days how I see things...
Let's get together in an honest dialogue then, shall we? And I mean that in the kindest way.
I'd like to throw out the bi-partisanship and begin an honest dialogue as friends.
I hope you will, because I'm serious and wish you nothing but the best.
Did you read the quote I posted? Or the article? How is saving small-business owners hundreds of thousands of dollars not helpful to their business? It applies to any boat builder, no matter where they live.
Sure it applies to all boat builders, but WHERE are all the boat builders located? In Fort Lauderdale? Coincidence? I think not.
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Originally Posted by Art123
If you want to spend $800 billion TODAY, you're crazy. I can guarantee it won't be spent right away. Doing so would insure waste - just like the billions that were literally lost in Iraq.
Thank you for making my point. We could have spent FAR LESS, but spent it NOW. A stimulus bill would be something that truly stimulates the economy immediately. We would have been far better off with a smaller bill, that was immediately stimulative.
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Originally Posted by Art123
They literally are one liners posted all over the internet, with no explanation as to the details. I can state that you have made 826 posts, read 373,130 times, but does that tell me anything? I can call all of that as "wasteful time on the Internets." You may disagree.
You asked for examples. I gave you a few. Can you please refute my charges with something other than "they are one liners"? I clearly stated that I was only posting a few examples and that there were more. I think I was pretty clear on that. If not, I apologize, but I think I was clear.
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Originally Posted by Art123
Do you know what an earmark is?
Sure do. How about you?
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Originally Posted by Art123
Do you know if those things made it in the final bill? Your link was from before then. The WWII thing does seem earmarky. But your link seems to dismiss projects as earmarks, just because they are for local projects. It seems like a local project is just as valid as a more national one. They both create jobs.
I believe that they did make it into the final bill. It just seems a bit to coincidental that the big Obama supporters all got nice juicy local projects funded. Whether these things are earmarks is a matter of debate and I am glad to debate it with you, but I do not require absolute proof that they were earmarks to have an opinion on them. To me, if it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck I will believe it to be a duck, even without DNA testing to absolutely prove it was a duck.
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Originally Posted by Art123
What research? There is nothing to believe or not believe. A one-line summation of how millions or billions of dollars are spent does nothing to explain whether it is worth it or not. It's like trying to discuss how trigonometry works using only a plus or minus sign. There's just not enough info to work with.
So how do you make your decisions? I look at the list and draw my conclusions from the list. Do you look for someone to tell you what you want to hear or do you draw your own conclusions? I could come up with sources that advocate your point of view AND ones that advocate mine. None of them prove anything, they are simply other people's opinions. Why are other people's opinions, based on the facts better than my opinion, based on fact?
Some conservatives seem to be arguing that the stimulus was too broad. That aside, specifics are much more effective when trying to make a point. So far the only specific "pork" or "earmark" I've heard mentioned was a wetland project in California. Do you have a specific example of a part of the bill that will benefit "just the folks that like Obama?"
By that logic, why is texas getting so much stimulus money if they didn't vote for him?
If Pelosi is a liar trying to get earmarks for her people, why did the red states get so much?
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