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JoeP said the following: Yeah I guess children like that would continue to whine, but it's all the more important that they don't to make policy decisions - otherwise they would push the same failed policies that got us into this historic mess.
Now Joe can you tell me where you were exactly 8 years ago? Can you tell me that libs, Dems or whatever weren't whining their heads off and working at full throttle trying to convince the people of this country that Bush didn't "win" that election and continue the same story for 8 full years.
Also, explain why the favorite Dem talking point seems to be failed policies. You know, like the failed policy of the Surge that turned the war in Iraq around even while Senators Reid and Obama were declaring defeat? Yeah, we heard those words all the time from them and others about defeat and what a waste that Surge would be. We even got to hear the other Democrat candidate call the general who oversaw that Surge a liar to his face in a Senate committee meeting. I guess there was no whine there, huh?
Does it not make Obama at least a little unhappy, that he didn't get to stop that war and that the agreement to get the troops out sooner than he will even attempt to do so was made before he got coronated (inaugurated??).
It is time for us to stop this old crap of bringing up inconsequential bits of information like this to argue about and get to trying to settle the set of problems we have now. Whining is what the most recent election winners accuse the other guys of doing. Is that not right? I did it for 8 years and am now a whiner, in your eyes.
As I noted in another thread, the success of liberal policies from FDR is history.
Success? How much of the success was due to WWII and the post-war boom? How was the new deal doing in 1938? Unemployment was 12.5% in 1938 which was better than the 20.6% in 1933 but up from 9.1% in 1937.
Actually, BigJon posted another thread showing the unemployment rates throughout FDR's term. He consistently dropped the unemployment rate by 10 points from 1933 (25%) to 1939 (14%). Then it dropped another ten when the war kicked in.
As Obama has admitted, government is not the solution, but it can soften the blow of failed markets.
Bush turned around the depression he inherited, turned around Clinton's 9-11 recession, and create a roaring economy despite the war that Clinton's negligence necessitated. As recently as 2007 we had a 14,000 DOW and under 5% unemployment....all because of Bush policies.
Why not explain to us why you think Obama's policies will work. The U.S. is in trouble. And Obama wants to use a credit card to pay off our debt. Why do you think this will work?
Pay a little attention. Obama is NOT trying to pay off our debt. That's what Clinton was doing until Bush came along. Obama is trying breathe as much life as he can back into an economy that is rapidly collapsing under the weight of failed cowboy capitalism.
The depression didn't end until the end of FDR's second term when we started selling arms to Britain.
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his means FDR's policies not only didn't work, they actually prolonged and worsened the Depression.
No, they significantly improved American's lives and the economy.
You want to dismiss the significant progess made - the significant dent into the the Depression and simply state our of deception or ignorance that FDR's policies "failed" because the Depression didn't "end"
I didn't say that it ended. I said and history clearly shows that they significantly helped. Conditions went in reverse when FDR listening to people like you pulled back on measures in 1937.
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Bush turned around the depression he inherited, turned around Clinton's 9-11 recession
We weren't in a depression when Bush took office. Bush started to create this mess with his unpaid for irresponsible tax cuts (which took priority over National Security meetings - Bush's neglict created 9/11)
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and create a roaring economy despite the war that Clinton's negligence necessitated.
The economy roared under Clinton and has been crashing for most Americans since Bush took office.
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It wasn't Bush who changed the way the banks made loans. It was the damn Democrats.
Democrats did not force deregulation (some were involved though). That would be Phil Gramm and the rest of the GOP who told bank to be irresponsible and not care about who they gave mortgages too - after all they could just sell the mortgages and so forth - and of course it would never catch up to anybody - that's the GOP way. No responsibility and when the Free Market crashes, it's out with the hat in hand for the companies.
The depression didn't end until the end of FDR's second term when we started selling arms to Britain. This means FDR's policies not only didn't work, they actually prolonged and worsened the Depression.
Actually, it means no such thing. GNP rose and unemployment fell so long as FDR kept boosting total demand with emergency government deficits. When he let up for a year, the opposite occurred. War spending was nothing more than New Deal spending cranked up notch.
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Originally Posted by Eeeee22895
Why would we want to emulate that when Reagan and Bush showed us how to end a down turn in a matter of months?
Within months, Reagan had sent us spiralling into the second worst depression of the 20th century. Unemployment above 10% for ten straight months, and above 9% for nineteen straight months. The First Bush Recession only ended in a technical sense. Despite two rounds of tax cuts for the rich, all that improved was corporate profits. The Fed had to leave interest rates at nothing to try to get some real economic activity going, but that gave rise to an overheated housing market that ultimately spawned the Second Bush Recession.
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Originally Posted by Eeeee22895
As recently as 2007 we had a 14,000 DOW and under 5% unemployment....all because of Bush policies.
Give or take a little seasonal adjustment, the low point in unemployment during the W adminstration came on the day he was first inaugurated. All it did was go up from there. From January 2001 to January 2009, the Dow lost 20%. From just about 10,000 to just about 8,000. Not a good time to hold stocks.
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Originally Posted by Eeeee22895
It wasn't Bush who changed the way the banks made loans. It was the damn Democrats.
If you have a family and live in a real world, the adults notice subtle changes in the economy.. For instance, the $50 office call to the doctor during the Clinton years slowly inched up to $175 during the Bush years. It was $25 in 1982. Chuck Roast on sale during the Clinton years was $1.99 per pound and inched up to $6.00 during the Bush years. Milk and bread more than doubled during the Bush years. Before Clinton left office gasoline at the pump was less than one dollar. During the Bush years it climbed to over $4.00 per gallon. Employees worked harder to
earn less spendable income. From 1999 to 2007 my utilites rose from $100 per month to nearly $500.
The only real stability was the small town bank. If you had reasonable credit and 20% down, you could buy a house. If you did not have the down payment, you saved until you did. Banks that played fast and lose with money that was not secrured are the same banks that are failing. To undestand the mortgage mess you had to be involved with real estate for fifty yars.. The mega banks that believe they are infallable have yet to pay the piper. Their day is coming before it is over. FHA, VA, RD, Freddie and Fannie will not be adversely affected.
I sometimes think conservatives have more belief in the power of government than they accuse liberals of having.
They call FDR a failure because he didn't singlehandedly end the depression.
His policies got the country moving in the right direction until the markets could correct themselves.
That's called successful.
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