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Old 04-09-2009, 08:11 AM
 
Location: Prepperland
19,013 posts, read 14,188,739 times
Reputation: 16727

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Repubocrat View Post
When I hear Obama talk about Socialism, big government and higher taxes, I feel really angry and frustrated because so many people like my parents came to America in particular, because America offered something that no other country offered: freedom, liberty, limited government and economic opportunities.

... If this country is no longer attractive to immigrants and becomes just another mediocre socialist European style bureaucracy, I am afraid, it will be the end of America as we know it.
You noted something about immigrants that native born seem to have forgotten. The typical indoctrination of Americans is toward "good jobs" working for another, instead of productive enterprises (running small businesses). This is but one of the consequences of widespread socialist indoctrination.

Socialism and capitalism are mutually exclusive. In fact, the U.S.A. has not been capitalist since 1935. Most Americans are unaware of that situation. I certainly wasn't aware, until my late 30s. Despite my educational credentials in mechanical and electrical engineering, I was wholly ignorant of the law and legislative history.

Before entering into verbal combat, let us hone our tools of discernment and vocabulary.

Can we agree that we do not wish to be robbed nor killed?
Good.
We share the concept that our right to life, the fruits of our labor and that which we acquire are ours, and not subject to anyone else. Our individual rights are not at the mercy of any one or group of people.

Do we agree that cooperation in support and defense of our rights is a good thing?
Good.
So a government formed in mutual defense of our rights to life, liberty and property is acceptable.

According to the Declaration of Independence, governments are instituted among men to (a) secure rights, and (b) govern by consent of the governed.

Is that acceptable to all?

If you haven't given consent to be governed, all government is authorized to do is use its awesome power in support of your right to life, liberty, private property and other sundry rights, not explicitly mentioned.

And as part of your right to life, do you have the inalienable right to engage in any harmless activity that supports that right to life?
Yes.

Now we're getting close to the "good stuff".

If you haven't given consent to be governed, and not submitted yourself (and your property) to the government, then the government is your servant.
Is that acceptable?
"Government is not Sovereignty. Government is the machinery or expedient for expressing the will of the sovereign power."
City of Bisbee v. Cochise County, 78 P. 2d 982, 986, 52 Ariz. 1
Excellent! The government agrees with us, so far.

But what is a sovereign and what is sovereignty?
SOVEREIGN - A person, body or state in which independent and supreme authority is vested...
Black's Law Dictionary Dictionary, Sixth Edition, p. 1395.

SOVEREIGNTY - ...By "Sovereignty", in its largest sense is meant supreme, absolute, uncontrollable power, the absolute right to govern.
Black's Law Dictionary Dictionary, Sixth Edition, p. 1396.
Who or what is the sovereign power, if the government is not sovereignty?
"People are supreme, not the state."
Waring v. the Mayor of Savannah, 60 GA at 93.

"The people of the state, as the successors of its former sovereign, are entitled to all the rights which formerly belonged to the king by his own prerogative."
Lansing v. Smith, (1829) 4 Wendell 9, (NY)

"At the Revolution, the sovereignty devolved on the people and they are truly the sovereigns of the country."
Chisholm v. Georgia, 2 Dall. 440, 463
Do you agree that the AMERICAN PEOPLE are sovereign?
Good.

Let's figure out what the government is.
"...In America, however, the case is widely different. Our government is founded upon compact. Sovereignty was, and is, in the people."
Glass vs The Sloop Betsey, 3 Dall 6 (1794)
What compact?
"But, indeed, no private person has a right to complain, by suit in Court, on the ground of a breach of the Constitution. The Constitution, it is true, is a compact, but he is not a party to it. The States are the parties to it....."
- - -Padelford, Fay & Co. vs. Mayor and Alderman, City of Savannah, 14 Ga. 438, 520 (1854) Supreme Court of Georgia
The U.S. Constitution is a compact between the States united and the United States, in Congress assembled.

Wait, aren't "we, the people" part of that compact?

Not if you're a private person, and one of the sovereign people.

Why?
"... the term 'citizen,' in the United States, is analogous to the term "subject" in the common law; the change of phrase has resulted from the change in government. ... he who before was a "subject of the King" is now a citizen of the State."
State v. Manuel, 20 N.C. 144 (1838)

"CITIZEN - ... Citizens are members of a political community who, in their associative capacity, have established or submitted themselves to the dominion of government for the promotion of the general welfare and the protection of their individual as well as collective rights. "
- - - Black's Law Dictionary,Sixth Ed. p.244
"SUBJECT - One that owes allegiance to a sovereign and is governed by his laws.
...Men in free governments are subjects as well as citizens; as citizens they enjoy rights and franchises; as subjects they are bound to obey the laws. The term is little used, in this sense, in countries enjoying a republican form of government."
- - - Black's Law Dictionary, Sixth Edition, p. 1425
Wait a minute - the government said it wasn't the sovereign, and that people were sovereign.
Who is a subject / citizen?
He who has established or submitted himself to the dominion of government is a citizen. He has given consent to be governed, in exchange for political liberties (voting and holding office).
Wait - there's an exception with respect to a "republican form of government"!
Good observation.
The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican Form of Government, and shall protect each of them against Invasion;
[United States Constitution, Article 4, Section 4]

REPUBLICAN (form of) GOVERNMENT. One in which the powers of sovereignty are vested in the people and are exercised by the people, ... directly,....
In re Duncan, 139 U.S. 449, 11 S.Ct. 573, 35 L.Ed. 219;
Minor v. Happersett, 88 U.S. (21 Wall.) 162, 22 L.Ed. 627.
- - - Black's Law Dictionary
In a republican form of government, the people are sovereign. The servant government, and its subject citizens, are delegated certain powers to secure the rights of the sovereign people.

Is that clear?
In America, the people are sovereign. But by consent, a private person can change his status, and submit himself to government, as a citizen.

Did you think you were born a "U.S. citizen"?
Who told you that?
It's not in the law.
"A Sovereign cannot be named in any statute as merely a 'person' or 'any person'".
Wills v. Michigan State Police, 105 L.Ed. 45 (1989)

"In common usage, the term 'person' does not include the sovereign, [and] statutes employing the [word] are ordinarily construed to exclude it."
Wilson v. Omaha Indian Tribe, 442 U.S. 653, 667, 61 L.Ed2. 153, 99 S.Ct. 2529 (1979)
(quoting United States v. Cooper Corp. 312 U.S. 600, 604, 85 L.Ed. 1071, 61 S.Ct. 742 (1941)).

"All PERSONS born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside." [14th Amendment, Section 1.]
Uh oh... Sovereign Americans are not persons subject to nor object of the governing power of the servant government.

What proof exists that there are people who are NOT citizens?
"The better to secure and perpetuate mutual friendship and intercourse among the people of the different states in this union, the free inhabitants of each of these states,..., shall be entitled to all privileges and immunities of free citizens in the several states; ..."
[Article IV of the Articles of Confederation (1777)]
Did you think "everybody" born in the U.S.A. was a U.S. citizen residing at a residence?

What's an inhabitant (as in free inhabitant)?
"INHABITANT - One who resides actually and permanently in a given place, and has his domicile there."
- - - Black's Law Dictionary, Sixth Edition, p.782

"DOMICILE - A person's legal home. That place where a man has his true, fixed, and permanent home and principal establishment, and to which whenever he is absent he has the intention of returning."
- - - Black's Law Dictionary, Sixth Edition, p.484

"RESIDENCE - Place where one actually lives ... Residence implies something more than physical presence and something less than domicile. The terms 'resident' and 'residence' have no precise legal meaning... [One can have many residences
but only one domicile]
- - - Black's Law Dictionary, Sixth Edition, p.1308, 1309
U.S. citizens who reside at residences do not have legal, permanent homes. Coincidentally, no state issues "resident" licenses (permissions) to non-resident inhabitants domiciled in their state. In fact, inhabitants don't need permission, because they're not transients and trespassers. They have the RIGHT to be in the state and use the public roads and waterways, marry, own a dog, build a house, enter occupations, and run a business without permission of their servant government.

Check your own state's constitution and laws for mention of the inhabitant and his superior status.
" No inhabitant of this state shall be molested in person or property ... on account of religious opinions..."
- - - Georgia Constitution, Article 1, Sec.1, Paragraph 4
If your religious opinions forbid you to enroll into national socialism, accept numbering, or engage in usury, you cannot be molested for your choice... in Georgia. And if you think they were not aware of the difference between inhabitants and residents, read this:
"Citizens, protection of.
All citizens of the United States, resident in this state, are hereby declared citizens of this state; and it shall be the duty of the General Assembly to enact such laws as will protect them in the full enjoyment of the rights, privileges, and immunities due to such citizenship."
- - - Georgia Constitution, Art 1, Sec.1, Paragraph 7
Recapping, the government is not sovereign, but servant to the sovereign people. However, citizens are subjects of the sovereign government. Since involuntary servitude is unconstitutional (except after conviction), the compulsory civic duties associated with citizenship are empowered by consent of the governed. You DID give consent, knowingly, willingly and intentionally, didn't you? You did sign many government documents where you claimed to be a citizen and a resident, didn't you?

If you were a victim of fraud or constructive fraud, you have the right to object, and change your status at law. But once you leave, don't ever submit again, for then it would be a permanent and irrevocable election, and no objection will hold up.

PART TWO - Disinformation Eradication
America's republican form of government, in which the people are sovereign is in harmony with capitalism. But let us be clear on what capitalism really means.
CAPITALISM - An economic system in which the means of production, distribution and exchange are privately owned and operated for private profit.
- - - Webster's Dictionary
A farmer who owns his farm enjoys capitalism. A farmer who does not is a tenant.
A laborer who owns the fruits of his labor enjoys capitalism. A laborer who does not is a slave.
PRIVATE PROPERTY - "As protected from being taken for public uses, is such property as belongs absolutely to an individual, and of which he has the exclusive right of disposition. Property of a specific, fixed and tangible nature, capable of being in possession and transmitted to another, such as houses, lands, and chattels."
- - - Black's Law dictionary, sixth ed., p.1217
If you concatenate capitalism with private property, you can see the "inconvenient truth".
Capitalism is an economic system in which the means of production, distribution and exchange are absolutely owned by individuals and operated for their individual profit.
Anything else is NOT capitalism, including usury (which likes to call its nefarious scheme "capitalizing") and limited liability artificial persons (stock corporations).

In American law, we know that the constitutional government has promised to secure private property rights.

Amendment V, US Constitution 1789
... nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.
From the Communist manifesto:
"In this sense, the theory of the Communists may be summed up in the single sentence: Abolition of private property."
COMMUNISM - the ownership of property, or means of production, distribution and supply, by the whole of a classless society, with wealth shared on the principle of 'to each according to his need', each yielding fully 'according to his ability'.
- - - Webster's Dictionary.

SOCIALISM - A political and economic theory advocating collective ownership of the means of production and control of distribution. It is based upon the belief that all, while contributing to the good of the community, are equally entitled to the care and protection which the community can provide.
--- Webster's dictionary
So let us be crystal clear - left wing socialist / communist pirates seek to rob property owners, via taxation and confiscation. And usurers, who also wish to rob property owners, via their scheme, are not part of capitalism. In fact, they are in alliance with these scurrilous scoundrels.

These thieves are opposed to any law that secures property rights, and government that espouses the ideal of securing property rights from attack.

HOW YOU WERE SWINDLED

Form SS-5, application for an account and number with Social Security is explicitly limited to U.S. citizens and U.S. residents. American nationals, free inhabitants, domiciled within the boundaries of the United States of America are ineligible to participate - and would not wish to.

Every participant in national socialism has surrendered his birthright to absolutely own private property, including himself. Each socialist has accepted the burden to be equally liable for the impossible public debt (See the definition for "contribution" in any legal dictionary) via the Federal Insurance CONTRIBUTION Act / Social Security Act of 1935. He has consented to be a "human resource" pledged as collateral on the debt. As one who is eligible for entitlements (charity) from the public treasury, each "volunteer" is a pauper, and thus a status criminal. Failure to pay his "fair share" of socialist taxes, will result in confiscation of his property (no longer protected from being taken for public use), and no just compensation will be given. Socialist Americans are incapable of owning private property.

In case you were unaware, Federal Reserve Notes (aka "dollar bills") are not dollars. They are authorized under the Federal Reserve Act of 1913, as codified in Title 12, USC sec. 411.
TITLE 12,UNITED STATES CODE, CHAPTER 3,SUBCHAPTER XII,sec. 411. Issuance to reserve banks; nature of obligation; redemption
" Federal reserve notes, to be issued at the discretion of the Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve System for the purpose of making advances to Federal reserve banks through the Federal reserve agents as hereinafter set forth and for no other purpose, are authorized. The said notes shall be OBLIGATIONS of the United States and shall be receivable by all national and member banks and Federal reserve banks and for all taxes, customs, and other public dues. They shall be redeemed in LAWFUL MONEY on demand at the Treasury Department of the United States, in the city of Washington, District of Columbia, or at any Federal Reserve bank."
FRNs are obligations of the U.S. government to pay lawful money on demand.
LAWFUL MONEY - "The terms 'lawful money' and 'lawful money of the United States' shall be construed to mean gold or silver coin of the United States..."
Title 12 United States Code, Sec. 152.
Federal Reserve Notes are issued under the authority of Art 1 Sec 8 power to borrow on the credit of the United States.
Article 1, Section 8. U.S. Constitution.
The Congress shall have Power
...To borrow Money on the credit of the United States;
But the notes were repudiated in House Joint Resolution 192, (June 1933). Congress will no longer guarantee the 'exchange rate' of the dollar (for each FRN). But the law still defines the national debt (in excess of 10 trillion dollars) in terms of gold. That computes to a sum of 500 billion ounces gold. Which is 100 times as much gold as is estimated to exist, above ground, in the world (5.5 billion ounces). Fort Knox depository has only 147.3 million ounces.

And Congress cannot question the public debt because of the 14th amendment, even when it is insane.
The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, ..., shall not be questioned.
Amendment 14, Section 4.
Now if you've followed this so far, you're aware that somehow, Americans were all persuaded that they needed to "join up" with national socialism before they were allowed to work in their own country. And that government "gave away" entitlements to all enumerated Americans. And that all we need to do is just elect the RIGHT group of public servants and everything will be fine.

Hopefully, you now will be better able to discount the propaganda and disinformation that has been fed to you from your birth.

The servant government is incapable of resolving the problems that are propelling the USA into collapse. Partly because of the constitutional limitations, and partly due to their contracts with usurers.

Partisan fighting and "wing" alliances will not resolve the problem. Since 1933, the U.S. Congress has been bankrupt. Since 1935, the USA has been marching to the tune of national socialism, slowly eroding the memory of absolute ownership and inalienable rights from the minds of each successive generation.

We are at a threshold of collapse. And after we pass that portal, I fear that too many people are so ignorant of their American birthright, that the enemies of the sovereign people will be victorious. Do not be deceived, government has acted helpless to make the problems worse, not better. It was all part of the plan to destroy the compacts that created the United States of America and substitute a new and improved "Socialist" compact.

Either you are FOR private property rights, or you are a pirate, seeking to TAKE private property rights. No matter what label, flag or doctrine is raised as the goal - either you are a harmless producer or you are a harmful predator. Choose carefully.

The REAL law protects property rights. And EVIL hates that law, and seeks to replace it with policy that is built upon fraudulent consent.

Sovereign people do not care who is the servant as long as he complies with his oath of office, and restrains himself within the limitations of the explicit delegation of power.
But if you're one of the subject peoples, be aware that your subjugation was entirely YOUR FAULT - according to the public record. Fighting about the inequities, tyranny, and unpleasant conditions of your servitude is futile. He who consents cannot complain. The government is absolved of all blame - because they have the written proof - in the public record.

The only nation on this planet with a republican form of government is the United States of America. And America is the only nation where the people are sovereign, and not subjects of servant government. If the people do not educate themselves to their lost heritage, this solitary experiment in true self government will pass into history, and be forgotten.

Go read the law, yourself.
It's available in every county courthouse law library.

I don't know about you, but there is no sum of money nor title of nobility that would ever persuade me to bend a knee or bow in subjugation to another monarch or sovereign, now that I know what my true birthright is. We were born to be Kings and Queens, monarchs of our lives and destinies. Our enemies have perverted generations, and polluted our language so that we may not recognize our tormentors. But I hope that someday, enough Americans awaken to their lost heritage. For when that day arrives, the heavens will rock with their exultation.
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Old 05-28-2009, 08:51 PM
 
Location: The Beach
159 posts, read 531,869 times
Reputation: 82
The US is just having some growing pains. I don't know why everyone has their panties in a bunch. We can only be so awesome before a strategy fails. That's when we try something new. People are so scared of change but it's inevitible, and bound to happen sometime. You can't stop CHANGE no matter what you do. Sorry but it's going to happen. If you don't like it you have a plethora of other countries you can gain citizenship to.
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Old 05-28-2009, 09:12 PM
 
Location: AL
2,476 posts, read 2,602,859 times
Reputation: 1015
I would love to know why Obamanuts get so upset when he is called a "Socialist"..I mean if the shoe fits wear it..and you liberal/Dem should have the balls to admit that he is...I mean what else do you call it...hes no Democrat.
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Old 05-30-2009, 10:30 AM
 
Location: The Beach
159 posts, read 531,869 times
Reputation: 82
There is no "perfect" candidate for anything, but I like Obama as a person. I might not agree on some of his political ideas and what not, but as a person he's alright.
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Old 05-30-2009, 12:15 PM
 
Location: Las Vegas, NV
3,849 posts, read 3,750,837 times
Reputation: 1706
Quote:
Originally Posted by Repubocrat View Post
When I hear Obama talk about Socialism, big government and higher taxes,
Sorry about cutting down your post to just this, but when have you heard Obama talk about those things? In what context? And what was he saying about them?
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Old 05-30-2009, 12:25 PM
 
Location: Las Vegas, NV
3,849 posts, read 3,750,837 times
Reputation: 1706
Quote:
Originally Posted by nononsenseguy View Post
Obama has publicly stated that he thinks he was elected to "fundamentally change" the United States (not "save" it).
No, the change he is talking about is changing politics, not the country.
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Old 05-30-2009, 12:28 PM
 
69,368 posts, read 64,081,664 times
Reputation: 9383
Quote:
Originally Posted by MsMcQ LV View Post
No, the change he is talking about is changing politics, not the country.
Ok, I'll bite.. what politics has he changed?
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Old 05-30-2009, 02:20 PM
 
Location: Universal City, Texas
3,109 posts, read 9,836,023 times
Reputation: 1826
Quote:
Originally Posted by muleskinner View Post
My suggestion to save the US would be to ship the neoCON rightwingers to another country where they would be more comfortable and fit in better...Any suggestions folks???
To the contrar, I think all the lefty goofballs should go back to Europe or wherever they idealize and leave the US to remain a Republic!!
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Old 05-30-2009, 04:02 PM
 
Location: Washington DC
5,922 posts, read 8,062,788 times
Reputation: 954
Quote:
Originally Posted by Repubocrat View Post
My parents immigrated to this country with almost nothing and after 30 years, they are both American citizens, successful and they know for a fact that no other country on Earth would have allowed them to have the kind of life they have today. Growing up, I heard so many similar stories from people who came to this country with almost nothing and after 3, 4 years, they already had their own small business. If there is one thing about this country that makes it so incredible is the fact that everything is possible here, which is the essence of America and the reason why this country is so great.

When I hear Obama talk about Socialism, big government and higher taxes, I feel really angry and frustrated because so many people like my parents came to America in particular, because America offered something that no other country offered: freedom, liberty, limited government and economic opportunities.

Like them, so many other immigrants left behind countries like Germany, Ireland, Italy and many others because they knew America was much better.

Immigration is one of main reasons why this country has been so successful for the last 200 years. If this country is no longer attractive to immigrants and becomes just another mediocre socialist European style bureaucracy, I am afraid, it will be the end of America as we know it.
If you and your family of "johnny come latelies" aren't happy with this country's direction, perhaps you should keep on moving. We founded this country several hundred year ago based upon meeting the desires of a majority of it citizens. The majority want to go the direction President Obama articulated in the fall.

His winning margin 2-1 was a mandate from the states to take us in this direction. It's an affront to the families who have been here since the begining that sonmehow you think after less than a full generation here your family's opinion is worthy of some special consideration.

We have pleanty of imigrants lined up at the border. You won't be missed.
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Old 05-30-2009, 04:25 PM
 
Location: Mississauga
1,577 posts, read 1,955,807 times
Reputation: 306
Quote:
Originally Posted by Repubocrat View Post
My parents immigrated to this country with almost nothing and after 30 years, they are both American citizens, successful and they know for a fact that no other country on Earth would have allowed them to have the kind of life they have today. Growing up, I heard so many similar stories from people who came to this country with almost nothing and after 3, 4 years, they already had their own small business. If there is one thing about this country that makes it so incredible is the fact that everything is possible here, which is the essence of America and the reason why this country is so great.

When I hear Obama talk about Socialism, big government and higher taxes, I feel really angry and frustrated because so many people like my parents came to America in particular, because America offered something that no other country offered: freedom, liberty, limited government and economic opportunities.

Like them, so many other immigrants left behind countries like Germany, Ireland, Italy and many others because they knew America was much better.

Immigration is one of main reasons why this country has been so successful for the last 200 years. If this country is no longer attractive to immigrants and becomes just another mediocre socialist European style bureaucracy, I am afraid, it will be the end of America as we know it.
This rhetoric is outdated. Many of the 'Socialist' countries you are referring to have GDP per capita on par or greater than the U.S.
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