Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
It's not a matter of not caring..........conservatives are always accused of this.
It's a matter of caring enough to believe in and know it's long past the time for "tough love" which is harder than throwing up your hands and giving in......and just 'giving'.
Farthur down the path we're heading, those able to give won't be there so those able and expecting to do for themselves will be in much better shape than those still held up by props.
I'm no spring chicken. I'm also conservative, but not this new age jerry springer brand.
You cannot seriously be telling 20yr olds wanting advice about how to build a life that it's long past time. Same goes for 20-30 something parents trying to make ends meet and still squirrel away for retirement. Wouldn't that be the similar advice given to post ww1 german youth???
Yes, circumstances of Greatdays era were different, and so were mine, but there are examples of how to accomplish things. Examples; I never could have gotten as far as I did if I didn't listen and learn a little something from everyone I've met along the way. Opportunities exist in all economic conditions. Don't bother trying to sell snow cones in january kind of thing.
Nobody can offer specific advice that applies to all. It's an off the rack world. We can only share what we know worked for us and let them decide for themselves if they want to walk that way. I still think it's useful for him to share & wish he would. Anyone meaning to argue with him about how he accomplished anything... you don't like strawberry ice cream, don't eat it. Want what I have not got? Sorry, I can't help you. That's not hard.
Quote:
Originally Posted by old_cold
Crooks and cheats are scattered throughout every single income and social strata and I seldom see bad motives/methods suspected by any but those that would do it themselves.
Or in my example, witnessing it and being morally outraged. At some point in my life I was too old to be politely considered naive, but I have no clue when that expiration date occurred. Judging by cynicism of kids these days, 9yrs old?
You cannot seriously be telling 20yr olds wanting advice about how to build a life that it's long past time.
No no...I am saying that if nobody wants or refuses to listen and learn that it's time to use a "tough love' approach.....that it's well past the time 'we' should have begun doing so.
Old I see people mistake what's being communicated. It's like a, b, c, ... Lmenno p. Even in my own life, it's always seemed the answers came when I just looked at the puzzle from another angle, then things got clear.
I'm not here to meddle in anyones life, but if they're in a blog telling someone about troubles, I interpret that to be a request for advice. Some use it just to blow steam, I know, but... I'll give most the benefit of the doubt. Scary times for lots of people. Heavy news for months and it hasn't shown signs of settling out... more dirt to shake off old glory.
People willing to learn don't need tough love. Save that to make them willing. Stubborn might fall on their face 20 times until they make themselves willing. Less wear and tear on me if I just sit back and wait until they are, because watching them do it to themselves gets on my mamma hen nerves.
Tristans it's not that anyone is guru on a mtn here. You know there's a difference between rightful entitlement (maintaining your own dignity) and ill entitlement (abusing power). I think what Great day was saying about job entitlement... you could be einstien but without a science lab, there's no job available except scrubbing toilets until you build one yourself. Passively waiting around on an employer, you might never realize you're einstien. The primary objective in business is filling a demand for profit, and where no demand exists there is no living. Harsh reality of economic cycles.
I refer to those in US who defend the top 1%.
I can understand the very wealthy being interested in keeping things up and/or introducing changes that will benefit them.
However, many posters on the forum seem to support or defend them. Posters who (I assume) cannot be considered wealthy. Some may even be in the lower income segments.
I lived in Europe and other places, but never noticed anything alike. In those countries, the middle class and poor are traditionally criticizing the rich, but the rich know how to care for their own interests. However, it seems that in the US they have more allies among the poor then anywhere else on the globe. Am I wrong?
(As a side note I do not hate the rich and think that they have an important economic role, as long as their influence is kept in balance)
well as long as you have the Republican party who goal is to take from the poor and give it to the rich, I am sure you will have people hating the wealthy, however Democrat wealthy people, people dont usually hate because their goal isnt to turn the country into a facist land where we are all slaves to the rich
I refer to those in US who defend the top 1%.
I can understand the very wealthy being interested in keeping things up and/or introducing changes that will benefit them.
However, many posters on the forum seem to support or defend them. Posters who (I assume) cannot be considered wealthy. Some may even be in the lower income segments.
I lived in Europe and other places, but never noticed anything alike. In those countries, the middle class and poor are traditionally criticizing the rich, but the rich know how to care for their own interests. However, it seems that in the US they have more allies among the poor then anywhere else on the globe. Am I wrong?
(As a side note I do not hate the rich and think that they have an important economic role, as long as their influence is kept in balance)
It is because, in America, everyone has the freedom to achieve whatever their talent, education, hard work, etc. will allow. One can be born into a poor family, and yet achieve much.
As one example: Condoleezza Rice. She was born into a realatively poor black family, became an accomplished concert pianist, earned a Bachelors Degree in political science at University of Denver, her Masters from Notre Dame, and her Ph.D from the Graduate School of International Studies, University of Denver. She was provost of Stanford University for six years (had also been a political science professor at Stanford), became National Security Advisor and Secretary of State under Bush.
Bill Gates (Microsoft) began Microsoft in his garage. I am told that he didn't even finish high school. At one time (and he held this distinction for several years) he was the "richest man in the world".
Steve Jobs, and Steve Wozniak (Apple Computer). Two regular guys, working day jobs at Hewlett Packard, belonged to a computer club. Their first "Apple", as they called it, was an experimental computer, but all their friends wanted it. They were able to sell it to a small retail store, and eventually demand required that they look for a loan to buy more parts to keep up with the demand (Bank of America gave them the loan). Apple Computer was born.
There are many other stories.
Why should we as Americans disparage the "rich"? Any one of us could (depending on our vision, and our effort) accomplish the same.
America is and always has been the land of opportunity. I still believe in it.
Americans, by tradition, have always had a curious 'love/ hate' relationship with the very rich. Our culture holds that we have no rigid 'class distinctions'...that theoretically ANY American, with the right combination of 'pluck', hard work, and a few breaks, can JOIN the very rich.
American society is precieved as 'fluid', and we can THEORETICALLY travel upward or downward in social status....and therefore, while all Americans reserve the right to 'grumble' about the very rich, and to 'mock' them a bit....Americans don't really HATE their rich, because Americans like to believe that they may someday BE one.
As America becomes more 'Third World" in the future, we may LOSE that cultural optimism, and at some future date, when Americans realize that their opportunities are shrinking, we may learn to "hate" the rich, just like happens in most societies, where the rich ARE hated, and for very good reasons.
"Fluid" is a good choice of words for what you describe. I have in past years been better off than I am today; but I have also been worse off.
Who in the course of their life has not been laid off from work once or twice, or gotten fired? Suddenly you find yourself in a "lower class". To be among the unemployed is very humbling, and lowers ones self esteem.
This is why it is important when found in such a situation to quickly shake the dust off your feet and "hit the pavement". At one time when I was in the situation, I made many cold calls to marketing managers at local companies (I had been working in the marketing department of my company for several years, after having been a field service tech). I became my own "employment agency". That was how I quickly found my next job. It is amazing how many managers are willing to take those cold calls, talk to you, and invite you in for an interview.
There are also times when you may have to accept a position with lower pay than your previously job.
The most extreme example would be a total personal "financial meltdown" and having to start "life" all over again from scratch. Many people have gone through such a personal crisis.
But here in America, it is quite easy to pick yourself up, dust yourself off, and start all over again. You can even make your own job, depending on what you like to do, your skills, and whether or not there is a demand for your service. I did just that (though I assure you, I'm not getting rich at it — but I'm not going to fire myself anytime soon!).
As to America becoming more "Third World" in the future: Only if we let it.
There are those who would actually like to see this happen, and many of them are in our government actually working toward that goal. They think that America should be more like the rest of the world; that it isn't "fair" that we are so rich as a nation, and that we "consume so much" of the "worlds resources".
They would have us believe that this is "progress", and they call themselves "Progressive".
Bunk!
These are the people that must be defeated. They are Socialists, and they hate our system and our free society. We must see to it that they fail (Is that a familiar "theme"? Have we heard someone say this before? Now you know what it means).
The engine of freedom, capitalism, has served us well. It has made us the greatest, richest, most advanced nation in the world with the highest standard of living, and all in a matter of a little over 200 years! Not in the history of the world has a nation achieved so much in so little time.
But some want to slam that engine of freedom into reverse, destroying it.
This is why it is important to be involved in our government, and know what these people are up to. Ultimately it is the electorate, the citizens of this country that are to take the roll of watchmen (or watchdogs) of our Republic. We must know what bills our representatives (remember, they work for us) are introducing, what is in them, and what their purpose is, and speak out against those things that are bad for the well being of the country, and of freedom.
But this very basic right the right to speak out against the enemy's of freedom, or against any bad piece of legislation (a bad budget, bad "stimulus", etc.) is under attack, by our government, and others, some, members of the media.
Those who would dare to speak out and exercise their right under the Constitution, are targeted by the liberal media, some in Congress, and even the President himself, and his Chief of Staff. They are called "loudmouths", "blowhards", "right wing extremists", "neocons", and other savory names. Their right to speak (and the right of those who agree with them to listen) is under assault as well, through attempts to control what may be aired on the radio through licensing and ownership rules, etc., where some bureaucrat will decide what you may listen to (irrespective of what the market determines people want).
We must not let them succeed. For if they do, freedom will have died.
America is great because of our system, our people, and the American spirit. And it is still a country where a person can become whatever they dream, depending on their skills, and the amount of effort they put into it.
That is why I do not "hate" the rich, and I will always defend them.
Last edited by nononsenseguy; 03-14-2009 at 05:29 AM..
That is a very scary scenario and I hope that it never becomes reality. I don't want America to become another poor country where the rich are hated and there is a constant class warfare. That is not the type of country our founders envisioned.
Why, as I have said, we need to be involved in our government, and learn what these people are up to and express our views.
I am told that phone calls work best, because our representatives do not read every piece of email, and personally I find that their Web forms are a poor means because they offer limited subject choices (though you may choose "other" — what are the chances of that letter being read?), and there is no ability to format or preview your message. It's not like sending a "real" email. Further, someone else determines what your representative will read. You're communication may simply be discarded.
I long for the early days of email, when virtually all representatives had a real email address. I think this should be required of all of them.
Very scary indeed, and not a future I'd like to see. But it seems to be where we're headed...because we WANT to, apparently. The middle class is shrinking rapidly as a percentage of the whole....and it's a large middle class, NOT just per-capita wealth, which makes for a 'nice', liveable society, free from class envy and hatreds. We're now moving AWAY from this, toward the more traditional 'Third World' model of the very rich, and the very poor, with few people in between.
I disagree with this assesment. I don't think we see this happening at all. Where are you coming up with this?
Quote:
Originally Posted by macmeal
Want an example? I spent 21 years in the public water field in Southern California. One of my most important 'tools' on my trips was the card showing the 'gate codes' for entering various gated commmunities. At one point, our local water district probably had 20 or 22 various gated communities in whic we had to go for service calls, reservoir checks, etc.
I don't know about YOU, but I never HEARD of a 'gated community' when I was growing up. The only reason I can think of to live in a gated community is to 'keep the riff-raff out'. Who are the 'riff-raff'? Our fellow citizens and neighbors, that's who....Affluent Americans are now (apparently) living in fear of other Americans...and are willing to pay good money to live 'away' from them.
A gated community also keeps out nonessential traffic, therby providing a quieter neighborhood. They are usually maintained by an association as well, so you can pay your money and have your lawn maintained, etc. Some people like that idea. Then, of course, there is the security. Less chance of having your home broken into.
While there are many gated communities across the country, there are still communities like Rancho Santa Fe, and Del Mar, Lomas Santa Fe, Point Loma, Coronado, and La Jolla, to name a few, which are not "gated".
Quote:
Originally Posted by macmeal
Does this sound like 'America'? Not to me..it sounds like Brazil or Haiti or Syria.....places where the 'rich' hire bodyguards and security men. As I said, we won't get to a 'third world' level of society this year...but the trend is in that direction...Rich vs poor.
There has always been class warfare in the US. The financial elite have always been at war with the working classes. The problem is--and has always been--that the working classes don't realize this.
Bunk!
I hate that term, "working class". It implies that those who wear a suit and tie to work, don't work, and it implies that the Bill Gates of the world don't work. If Bill Gates believed as you do, we probably never would have had a Microsoft. Can you honestly deny that Bill Gates got where his is today without working?
When you here the term "working class" used, it usually signifies "union labor", and I suspect that the term came from the unions.
It is the Unions ("Big Labor") that are responsible for fomenting the hatred of "management" and telling their members that their companies are exploiting them. This is a lie. This is the kind of thing that divides Americans.
Further, I can tell you from my associations with people who work for GM, at the Lordstown, OH assembly plant, that these people are far from poor. They make far more than I do, live in a nicer home than I do, and they drive new cars every year. They live well, and they have benefits that most people do not have. Yet, their unions are always after more and more, and it is killing America's auto industry.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
My Opinion
