Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 03-11-2009, 10:06 AM
 
1,902 posts, read 2,467,262 times
Reputation: 543

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Greatday View Post
Union membership is at around 12% of workers - and falling.

Obama has proposed that there be "merit" pay for teachers. Know who opposes this? Yep - the Unions

Unions were very important during the industrial revolution in this country - where there were no laws regarding things like work place conditions. Today however, Unions are no where as necessary - and in some cases, are a detriment to business being successful

One example is the UAW - they are, in part, responsible for the fall of the US Auto industry. To be sure - there is lots of blame to go around - but the UAW has to share the blame.

IMO, Union membership will continue to fall. And, rightfully so.
As our gubmint grows, so grows the union, it's the only stronghold they have left since they are losing the auto industry.

Their membership is falling outside of gubmint, that is why the unionization by intimidation (card check) bill is so important to them.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 03-11-2009, 10:58 AM
 
Location: Southeast
4,301 posts, read 7,031,240 times
Reputation: 1464
Quote:
Originally Posted by Randomdude View Post
And who determines what theyre worth?
Nobody does. From a purely economic standpoint, labor is a factor of production, and has a market equilibrium and supply/demand cruve as if it were a normal good.

When the minimum wage goes up, or new union contracts are laid out, you effectively establish a price floor. Upon doing so, the quanitity demanded of new employees by a company goes down, and unemployment usually rises. In an effort to help out the poor and other minimum wage workers, you actually hurt them by costing potential jobs.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-11-2009, 11:18 AM
 
Location: wrong planet
5,167 posts, read 11,433,597 times
Reputation: 4371
I am pro-Union. With globalization we entered a race to the bottom. Of course the wages here are higher than in China, but so is the cost of living. Try living on a wage you would earn in a chinese factory here in the US. Do we want workers to not be able to afford to buy the products that they produce? This is often the case in China.
Employees have a lot more power if they band together. Most companies in the US plan very short term, and have a revolving door as far as their CEO's are concerned. Most do NOT listen to their employees. The company my husband works for is the perfect example. They get a new CEO and he promptly institutes changes, that all those that have worked there for a long time, know will NOT work and often have a negative effect. Despite these employees speaking up, those at the top go ahead and have wasted a LOT of money and time (which is money).
__________________
The price of anything is the amount of life you exchange for it. ~Henry David Thoreau


forum rules, please read them
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-11-2009, 11:26 AM
 
Location: Brooklyn
40,050 posts, read 34,586,806 times
Reputation: 10616
In a country where taking personal responsibility has fallen to unbelievable lows, the fact that more and more people make anti-union comments is hardly surprising. If they were actually looking out for their own interests, they would be forming unions rather than trashing them. But, of course, you aren't going to hear too many voices pointing this out. (Yes, I belong to a union. Having a voice, even a small one, turns out to be vastly preferable to having none at all. And for people who swear that unions exist only for purposes of corruption and/or getting paid "too much money," well, what was it George Orwell said about ignorance being strength?)
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-11-2009, 01:08 PM
miu
 
Location: MA/NH
17,766 posts, read 40,149,724 times
Reputation: 18084
I don't care for the high union fees. If a job is only paying $11 an hour, it's not worth it to have to pay $20 a week for union dues. That's too high imo and what does the union need with all that money?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-11-2009, 01:14 PM
 
1,902 posts, read 2,467,262 times
Reputation: 543
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred314X View Post
In a country where taking personal responsibility has fallen to unbelievable lows, the fact that more and more people make anti-union comments is hardly surprising. If they were actually looking out for their own interests, they would be forming unions rather than trashing them. But, of course, you aren't going to hear too many voices pointing this out. (Yes, I belong to a union. Having a voice, even a small one, turns out to be vastly preferable to having none at all. And for people who swear that unions exist only for purposes of corruption and/or getting paid "too much money," well, what was it George Orwell said about ignorance being strength?)

How do you equate being in a union with personal responsibility? Seems just the opposite to me.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-11-2009, 01:16 PM
 
29,939 posts, read 39,447,879 times
Reputation: 4799
Quote:
Originally Posted by MovingForward View Post
Amazing. Orwellian speak once again! Black is white and up is down.

Is everybody LISTENING?????? Because here's the message coming from Republicans:

The working person is a disposable peasant. The working person has no right to demand a living wage, humane working conditions, and family time. Nosirree. If s/he does, The Corporation will be FORCED to outsource all American jobs!!! Yessirree, the Republicans say: the AMERICAN WORKER is responsible for the outsourcing of American jobs! Don't you understand? The poor, overburdened-with-labor-concerns MULTI-BILLION-DOLLAR CEOs are not to be blamed! The tyrannical AMERICAN WORKER is destroying American business!!! (And never mind, please, that American business functioned just fine alongside the existence of unions--for decades. Of course, this was when they still taught the concept of corporate "reasonable profit" in college-level economics classes. With the election of Reagan, that went out the window.)

Good riddance to the neo-cons.
You have apparently no idea what federal rights you have as an employee even in right to work states.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-11-2009, 01:19 PM
 
29,939 posts, read 39,447,879 times
Reputation: 4799
Still haven't figured out who pays corporate taxes, wages, fines, union dues and any other liberal punishments you could dream of?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-11-2009, 01:21 PM
 
Location: Virginia Beach, VA
5,522 posts, read 10,194,695 times
Reputation: 2572
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frankie117 View Post
Nobody does. From a purely economic standpoint, labor is a factor of production, and has a market equilibrium and supply/demand cruve as if it were a normal good.

When the minimum wage goes up, or new union contracts are laid out, you effectively establish a price floor. Upon doing so, the quanitity demanded of new employees by a company goes down, and unemployment usually rises. In an effort to help out the poor and other minimum wage workers, you actually hurt them by costing potential jobs.

Actually, historically, there is no evidence that a raise in minumum wage is directly correlated to any increase in unemployment. This lends itself to support the argument that low wage workers are "worth" more then what they are doing, but employers can offer as low of wages as they want, because someone will take that job out of desperation.

Fundamental supply and demand does happen with the most in demand members of the work force, where there truely exists a market.

However, at the lowest wage bands, there is no true market as all demand will be met no matter how low the wage is driven down. In reality, this means the employer sets the labor value, rather then any true market forces, or the actual value their labor represents.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-11-2009, 01:23 PM
 
Location: Virginia Beach, VA
5,522 posts, read 10,194,695 times
Reputation: 2572
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred314X View Post
In a country where taking personal responsibility has fallen to unbelievable lows, the fact that more and more people make anti-union comments is hardly surprising. If they were actually looking out for their own interests, they would be forming unions rather than trashing them. But, of course, you aren't going to hear too many voices pointing this out. (Yes, I belong to a union. Having a voice, even a small one, turns out to be vastly preferable to having none at all. And for people who swear that unions exist only for purposes of corruption and/or getting paid "too much money," well, what was it George Orwell said about ignorance being strength?)

Actually, in a global economy, unionization hurts far more then it helps. A heavily unionized economy will only work with protections on the economy which do not allow companies to simply turn to foreign workers.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:01 PM.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top