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Old 03-11-2009, 04:03 PM
 
7,359 posts, read 10,274,289 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greatday View Post
Cattle have to be watered. So do crops.

What do you suggest be done?
Reduction in cattle farming. We are losing an acre of forest cover per day, in the Amazon, to cattle ranching. It's causing massive ecological problems. The rainforests are the "lungs" of the planet. Destroy them, and destroy not only other species, but our own, as well. The expansion of cattle ranching in the U.S.--due to a growing and unsustainable population here--is encroaching on habitat necessary to our long-term survival. People are just going to have to start eating less meat. There is simply no way that the land, globally, can sustain cattle ranching to feed 6 billion people--and growing.
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Old 03-11-2009, 04:04 PM
 
Location: Alvarado, TX
2,917 posts, read 4,764,862 times
Reputation: 802
I cannot live on veggies alone, nor on meat alone. I guess I could simply roll over and die, huh? Desalinization is also a much neglected if only partial solution. Did I read that after the monsoon that hit SE Asia a year or two ago, the US Navy was "making" water from seawater, in abundance? Even Chalmette, LA, had/has a plant to purify Mississippi River water, and there is a heckuva lotawata flowing through NOLA at any given second.
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Old 03-11-2009, 04:11 PM
 
Location: Pinal County, Arizona
25,100 posts, read 39,244,458 times
Reputation: 4937
Quote:
Originally Posted by MovingForward View Post
Reduction in cattle farming. We are losing an acre of forest cover per day, in the Amazon, to cattle ranching. It's causing massive ecological problems. The rainforests are the "lungs" of the planet. Destroy them, and destroy not only other species, but our own, as well. The expansion of cattle ranching in the U.S.--due to a growing and unsustainable population here--is encroaching on habitat necessary to our long-term survival. People are just going to have to start eating less meat. There is simply no way that the land, globally, can sustain cattle ranching to feed 6 billion people--and growing.
Eat less meat? Why? Or, are you suggesting that everyone become vegatarians?

No, there is plenty of land for cattle operations
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Old 03-11-2009, 04:18 PM
 
7,359 posts, read 10,274,289 times
Reputation: 1893
Quote:
Originally Posted by Delta Planter View Post
I cannot live on veggies alone, nor on meat alone. I guess I could simply roll over and die, huh? Desalinization is also a much neglected if only partial solution. Did I read that after the monsoon that hit SE Asia a year or two ago, the US Navy was "making" water from seawater, in abundance? Even Chalmette, LA, had/has a plant to purify Mississippi River water, and there is a heckuva lotawata flowing through NOLA at any given second.
Nonsense. You don't need to eat meat to survive. You've simply been acculturated to think that you do ("follow the money," as they say). Several cultures have been vegetarian for centuries. In any case, you certainly don't need to eat meat every day. It's bad for you, anyway.
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Old 03-11-2009, 04:24 PM
 
Location: Pinal County, Arizona
25,100 posts, read 39,244,458 times
Reputation: 4937
Quote:
Originally Posted by MovingForward View Post
Nonsense. You don't need to eat meat to survive. You've simply been acculturated to think that you do ("follow the money," as they say). Several cultures have been vegetarian for centuries. In any case, you certainly don't need to eat meat every day. It's bad for you, anyway.
Let's define "meat", shall we:

All of the following need water:

Fish
Chickens(and other fowl including Turkeys and Duck)
Pigs (hogs)
Sheep
Cattle (for food)
Dairy Cattle

Do you suggest doing away with all the above
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Old 03-11-2009, 04:27 PM
 
7,359 posts, read 10,274,289 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greatday View Post
Eat less meat? Why? Or, are you suggesting that everyone become vegatarians?

No, there is plenty of land for cattle operations
No, there ISN'T "plenty of land for cattle operations." The reasons are complex, but in short: We need to maintain more--rather than less-- open space, with undisturbed ecosystems, in order for the planet to survive. It's not "empty" land: the work of evolution, and the moment-by-moment cleaning of the land, the water, and the atmosphere goes on by millions of organisms in that "empty" land. Reduce the working land mass (especially through deforestation), toxify it with waste run-off from cattle ranches and the chemicals/pesticides they use, and you end up with dead land and an increasingly weakened environment, globally. People generally don't know this, because people don't have an ecological education. As a result, most of us carry around in our heads an idea that the land is just backdrop for human activity, and that no matter what we do to it, it will continue to sustain us. That may have been true before the 1950s. But with the destruction of family American farms--which operated entirely organically--replaced by huge agribusiness (and the toxic overloads of pesticides, not to mention the hell-on-earth of factory farms), Nature is no longer able to withstand our assault. Hence: global climate change, BSE, contaminated water tables, rising levels of CO2 (15-20% of which is from the methane gas emitted by animals on factory farms and ranches), etc. The chickens are coming home to roost, as the saying goes.
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Old 03-11-2009, 04:30 PM
 
7,359 posts, read 10,274,289 times
Reputation: 1893
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greatday View Post
Let's define "meat", shall we:

All of the following need water:

Fish
Chickens(and other fowl including Turkeys and Duck)
Pigs (hogs)
Sheep
Cattle (for food)
Dairy Cattle

Do you suggest doing away with all the above
I'm not going to get into whether or not--ethically or philosophically speaking--one should eat meat. I'm more interested in the ecological realities of the effects that massive--and massively growing--agribusiness is having on our environment, and the extent to which it is seriously threatening the health of this planet for the next generation. It stays in business in response to demand--and again, a growing demand. The only way to reduce the damage is to reduce the demand. Nobody needs to eat meat every single day.
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Old 03-11-2009, 04:38 PM
 
35,016 posts, read 39,138,717 times
Reputation: 6195
Quote:
Originally Posted by cruxan View Post
lake mead is at 46% of it's capacity or 118 feet below the maximum capacity elavation january 2009.... do you realy think lake mead is going to go dry??
Interesting - ideas as to what to do about the disappearing water.

FEATURE-Fast-growing Western US cities face water crisis | Reuters
"There is going to have to be a big adjustment in the American Southwest and in California as we come to grips with limits in this century -- not just limited water, but also limited water supply," said James Powell, author of the book "Dead Pool," exploring challenges facing planners in the West.

Reactions among local water authorities differ.


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Old 03-11-2009, 04:48 PM
 
Location: Pinal County, Arizona
25,100 posts, read 39,244,458 times
Reputation: 4937
Quote:
Originally Posted by MovingForward View Post
The only way to reduce the damage is to reduce the demand. Nobody needs to eat meat every single day.
the list I provide (of animals); if it were up to you, would you limit, or eliminate totally, the commercial production of those animals?
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Old 03-11-2009, 05:05 PM
 
Location: Alvarado, TX
2,917 posts, read 4,764,862 times
Reputation: 802
Quote:
Originally Posted by MovingForward View Post
Nonsense. You don't need to eat meat to survive. You've simply been acculturated to think that you do ("follow the money," as they say). Several cultures have been vegetarian for centuries. In any case, you certainly don't need to eat meat every day. It's bad for you, anyway.
Several cultures, eh? For centuries, you say? Okay, genius, fess up, tell me what cultures. As it is, I don't eat meat everyday. Oh, and are you a doctor or a dietician, telling me meat is bad for me?
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