Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 03-14-2009, 07:34 PM
 
4,410 posts, read 6,129,558 times
Reputation: 2908

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by 01Snake View Post
Let me spell it out for you: I don't want to pay higher taxes to support ANYONE.
I've never had a problem with taxes and I can't understand why the right (if I'm pointing in the right direction) continually brings up the subject of taxes. I'll pay my taxes whatever they are provided they are spent wisely. I think we both would agree with that. The waste of our money is legendary, the waste of resources is too. But I don't sit at home moaning about how taxes are killing me. Taxes are not my biggest concern or debt. It's the price I pay for being able to drive on good roads and not have my home be burglarized or burned down.

I think every worker deserves benefits OR none of them do. Either every worker gets health insurance and paid time off or we all get our own insurance and prepare to save enough to take vacations without pay. We are all in this together. I understand the philosophical allure of each man being an island, of each family supporting itself, of everyone pulling their own weight. Unfortunately, that world would be one of tremendous imbalance and cruelty. Until the amount of taxes I pay makes working not even worth doing, I'm content with the "middle way" we have now. We each pay in, we each get out, and it all somehow balances itself out in the end. And whoever is getting too much and knows it, whoever is raping the rest of us, I'll leave them with their karma.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 03-14-2009, 07:38 PM
 
6,205 posts, read 7,441,432 times
Reputation: 3563
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yeledaf View Post
I disagree. Unless one's standards are especially low, "Nickled and Dimed" is not a "wonderful book." Like most of Ehrenreich's writing, it contains a very clever idea that peters out in the telling as the author runs out of steam and forfeits her promises.

For example, "Nickled and Dimed" contains Ehrenreich's promise to stick it out as a minimum-wage worker and (a la George Orwell in "Down and Out in Paris and London" published in the late 1930s), actually live the life of the indigent/underemployed long enough to truly walk the walk --- but she merely dabbles long enough to pick up and relate some pithy episodes. It is an exercise in voyeurism by a wealthy and educated womam seeking to vicariously experience the frisson of need while also making a buck. A typical two-fer.

I recently finished Ehrenreich's latest book "Dancing in the Streets" (and recommend it to those interested in an innovative way to look at social history). A clever and fresh look at collective human psychology, even this book is flawed with Ehrenreich's chronic lack of staying power, and seeming inability to maintain her edge and follow through with what is a potentially powerful thesis. She lazily falls back on popular wisdom and urban mythology in her summary, and ends up being wryly amusing rather than inspirational or truly thought-provoking.
Yeled,
I already read such criticism about "Ms. Ehrlichson" (lol) but I think you missed the issue. The topic is not her. The book isn't about her. She is a massager who brings a look at life's less known realities to her readers. A reviewer on another forum was annoyed that at the end, she still didn't find a job in "Bait and Switch". She doesn't need a job, she already has one. But those looking for work, oh boy...(BTW, I think that this book is more important then her first, since it describes the realities of struggling educated middle class folks that cannot make it in 21st century America).
And voyeurism is part of such adventure. Every investigating reporter can be considered a voyeur.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-14-2009, 07:49 PM
 
Location: SW Missouri
15,853 posts, read 35,068,861 times
Reputation: 22694
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yeledaf View Post
I disagree. Unless one's standards are especially low, "Nickled and Dimed" is not a "wonderful book." Like most of Ehrenreich's writing, it contains a very clever idea that peters out in the telling as the author runs out of steam and forfeits her promises.

For example, "Nickled and Dimed" contains Ehrenreich's promise to stick it out as a minimum-wage worker and (a la George Orwell in "Down and Out in Paris and London" published in the late 1930s), actually live the life of the indigent/underemployed long enough to truly walk the walk --- but she merely dabbles long enough to pick up and relate some pithy episodes. It is an exercise in voyeurism by a wealthy and educated womam seeking to vicariously experience the frisson of need while also making a buck. A typical two-fer.

I recently finished Ehrenreich's latest book "Dancing in the Streets" (and recommend it to those interested in an innovative way to look at social history). A clever and fresh look at collective human psychology, even this book is flawed with Ehrenreich's chronic lack of staying power, and seeming inability to maintain her edge and follow through with what is a potentially powerful thesis. She lazily falls back on popular wisdom and urban mythology in her summary, and ends up being wryly amusing rather than inspirational or truly thought-provoking.

"Nickled and Dimed" (much like its sequel, "Bait and Switched"), displays Enrenreich at her most annoying: clever but not wise, slick but not scholarly, poignant but not persuasive.

For the real deal, give me Orwell's social 70-year-old criticism -- or even Michael Harrington's "The Other America" --- any day. They remain much more readable, and to the point, than Ehrenreich will ever be...
Perhaps you are correct about the author's lack of sticking with her project. However, I can tell you from personal experience that the type of lifestyle that is demonstrated in "Nickled and Dimed" is inherently and UNBELIEVABLY boring - certainly for an intelligent person. Let me say, that kind of life never varies! I would think that *anyone* with a modicum of intellect would be so bored out of their socks, they couldn't WAIT to move on to the next phase of the project.

Moreover, there is no reason to belabor the details. The reader "gets the point" without having to beat a dead horse about it. By the time the author moved to the next phase I was more than ready for her to. I thought the book moved well and I never expected it to be "War and Peace".

20yrsinBranson
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-14-2009, 08:13 PM
 
Location: Metro-Detroit area
4,050 posts, read 3,953,569 times
Reputation: 2107
pghquest;7885055]So does that make it wal-marts problem that people working there are happy to collect welfare and not demand better benefits, or does that make it the tax payers problem because without "welfare", their employees would be demanding benefits because many would need insurance?

If you think wal-mart is to blame for the governments willingness to insure everyone upon their behalf then your sadly mistaken"



Why can't anyone with 1/4 brain see the arrogance/ignorance of this statement.
So if unfortunately wal-mart is the best/only job you can find then you automatically fall into the category of "happy to collect welfare and not demand better benefits"

This person is very shrewd or very the opposite of...

Wal-mart will shut an entire store down before they allow a union to come in and start a benefits program, imagine the employee in the H.R. office with the regional mgr, store mgr, hr mgr, dept mgr, etc "demanding" better pay and benefits.

Said employee waives bye bye as security escorts him out the building and then starts head hunting for more of the rabble rouser's to fire.

Doesn't matter if an entire department or the whole store, those who've ever worked in retail know I,m not exaggerating.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-14-2009, 08:21 PM
 
Location: Texas
44,256 posts, read 64,216,996 times
Reputation: 73924
I read that book when it first came out.

I thought the author did a crappy job of being poor.

I would have done better and fared better. And I know people who do.

Oh, and I think we would do well to remember the difference between a 'right' and a 'benefit.'
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-14-2009, 08:46 PM
 
Location: UP of Michigan
1,767 posts, read 2,394,639 times
Reputation: 5720
Quote:
Originally Posted by pghquest View Post
So does that make it wal-marts problem that people working there are happy to collect welfare and not demand better benefits, or does that make it the tax payers problem because without "welfare", their employees would be demanding benefits because many would need insurance?

If you think wal-mart is to blame for the governments willingness to insure everyone upon their behalf then your sadly mistaken..
So .....you support "card check"? Unions definitely have their place, don't they? BTW....I am not and haven't been a union member. I am not a box store fan. I guess the debunking is ongoing?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-14-2009, 08:50 PM
 
69,368 posts, read 63,992,474 times
Reputation: 9383
Quote:
Originally Posted by pghquest View Post
So does that make it wal-marts problem that people working there are happy to collect welfare and not demand better benefits, or does that make it the tax payers problem because without "welfare", their employees would be demanding benefits because many would need insurance?

If you think wal-mart is to blame for the governments willingness to insure everyone upon their behalf then your sadly mistaken"
Quote:
Originally Posted by reconmark View Post
Why can't anyone with 1/4 brain see the arrogance/ignorance of this statement.
So if unfortunately wal-mart is the best/only job you can find then you automatically fall into the category of "happy to collect welfare and not demand better benefits"

This person is very shrewd or very the opposite of...

Wal-mart will shut an entire store down before they allow a union to come in and start a benefits program, imagine the employee in the H.R. office with the regional mgr, store mgr, hr mgr, dept mgr, etc "demanding" better pay and benefits.

Said employee waives bye bye as security escorts him out the building and then starts head hunting for more of the rabble rouser's to fire.

Doesn't matter if an entire department or the whole store, those who've ever worked in retail know I,m not exaggerating.
You ready to hear where your wrong? If the government did not subsidize Wal-Mart by giving their low wage employees welfare/benefits, the employees would demand benefits.

So you think Wal-Mart would shut down stores rather then give benefits? I dont think so because ALL stores would need to pay benefits. Sure, now they claim they would shut down a stores but thats because they have a choice, a choice to pay low wages and have the govt cover benefits, or a choice to pay higher wages and pass the price onto the consumer. For Wal-Mart, thats no choice.

In fact, if the government would stop subsidizing companies by giving benefits to low wage employees and Wal-Mart would be forced to offer benefits, Wal-Mart would benefit more because they would surely get a better cost per employee than any of its competitors simply due to numbers.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-14-2009, 08:52 PM
 
Location: Midwest
38,496 posts, read 25,753,611 times
Reputation: 10789
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greatday View Post
There is no law that requirers employers provide any benefits of any kind to employees.

That said -- many, if not most, employers, in order to compete, do offer some benefits including access to health insurance. But, because of the increase in premiums, employers have had to reduce their contributions to those premiums and the employees have seen their contributions increase.

The employer is being burdened with so many costs related to the employees, that something had to give.
Absolutely! This burden to the employer gives them a handicap on the global market. Other countries have universal healthcare and this actually gives businesses in those countries a competitive advantage..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-14-2009, 08:54 PM
 
69,368 posts, read 63,992,474 times
Reputation: 9383
Quote:
Originally Posted by wordsmith680 View Post
So .....you support "card check"? Unions definitely have their place, don't they? BTW....I am not and haven't been a union member. I am not a box store fan. I guess the debunking is ongoing?
What would make you think I support card check? The statement was about the government supporting wal-mart by subsidizing their low wage employees, it had nothing to do with unions. Companies offer employees benefits despite their union status.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-14-2009, 08:55 PM
 
Location: Pinal County, Arizona
25,100 posts, read 39,197,274 times
Reputation: 4937
Quote:
Originally Posted by jojajn View Post
Absolutely! This burden to the employer gives them a handicap on the global market. Other countries have universal healthcare and this actually gives businesses in those countries a competitive advantage..
Totally disagree - inasmuch as those employers have to pay into those UHI systems - almost more expensive than here
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:12 PM.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top