George W destroyed America...so lets blame Obama (legal, Afghanistan, racist)

[OSUGUY87]

Originally Posted by proudmama

Slow down, again both sides are in reactive mode. You have both sides saying their drafting a bill to tax the money, but you also have a Senator making statements for AIG to commit suicide.

I know and I think it was totally uncalled for, I'm a republican but think all politicians should be held accountable for stupid actions! Why would you ever tell someone to kill themselves because they received a bonus. The funny thing is my friend who is a die hard democrat was supporting the guy while I was telling him that the senator was acting like an ahole. I just want people to move on we all know bush messed up. Not everyone is perfect! To say he destroyed America is pure ignorance! Did he not keep us safe? I want Obama and his administration to admit when they where wrong. Admit that they didn't read the contracts or admit that you did and didn't care until now! Obama is not the change people voted for, he is the same old washington politics we have always had!

[LibertyandJusticeforAll]

Fault is the people's for voting for change and hope and the republicans who actually thought they would get a conservative in the white house.
Dont blame me I voted for Ron Paul who did you vote for?
When you get a chance review the actions of congress when Bush as president they can stand right next time on the list of lies and corruption and big government idealogy. Obama is moving it right along nothing new about hope and change and just the same actions I figured he would take anyway.

[nrfitchett4]

Originally Posted by mrbob

Rest assured - most Americans DO blame our current problems squarely on Bush, and they see Obama and the Democrats as trying hard to fix those problems, and they also see the current Republican Congress as not wanting to lift a finger to help but rather hoping that we fail...

It will be tough going for a few more months - but eventually the financial sector will stabilize and the economy will pick up...

At that point - the Republican party - as a national political party - will be a shadow of it's current size and strength.

We'll definitely have the last laugh!!!

Just try to see thru the BS of the Obama Haters on this forum - they are actually a tiny, vocal group of malcontents who have no power to do squat...

so the repubs are just sitting back? No they disagree with big gov't spending and favor a tax cuts approach, you know the one that actually has worked in the past, to fix the economy. but since the dems wouldn't even debate the topic and wouldn't let them read the bill, they all voted against it. I'm glad they did it. The current economic mess has nothing to do with the bush admin, but Clinton and his cronies. Twice the repub congress tried to investigate fannie mae and they were turned down both times. But, of course bush is to blame.
But that's o.k. because when obama's big gov't spending doesn't fix it, it will be his fault and he won't get re-elected. So we have some solace in that.

[lamexican]

Originally Posted by nrfitchett4

so the repubs are just sitting back? No they disagree with big gov't spending and favor a tax cuts approach, you know the one that actually has worked in the past, to fix the economy. but since the dems wouldn't even debate the topic and wouldn't let them read the bill, they all voted against it. I'm glad they did it. The current economic mess has nothing to do with the bush admin, but Clinton and his cronies. Twice the repub congress tried to investigate fannie mae and they were turned down both times. But, of course bush is to blame.
But that's o.k. because when obama's big gov't spending doesn't fix it, it will be his fault and he won't get re-elected. So we have some solace in that.

Are you kidding me, you want to blame thecurrent mess on Clinton... You are only proving that republicans are in no way believers in self accountability... Eight years in office and deserves noeo of the blame for not fixing the mess, you must be joking????

[JMadison]

Originally Posted by TomDot

Exactly!
People used future gains as leverage in both instances.

It's the equivalent of betting on a horse that you believe is a sure shot winner. Then turning around and borrowing money using those expected winnings as collateral and betting on more horses.

Well, there's really a little more to it than that. But it is how the little guy got caught up in it... and the big guys who's businesses depended on consumer spending.

So let's look at a few points:

1) Mortgage credit loosened up... at whose hands and why?

2) Then mortgage securities where bundled (securitized) by who or what?

3) Those mortgage securities were rated AAA by someone or something?

4) Those mortgage securities where then sold as great, fixed income investments... (Rated AAA remember)...

5) Then AIG "insured" those securities with Credit Default Swaps (CDS's) while believing the AAA rating... *without sufficient funds to cover those defaults*... (They made a bet they wouldn't have to pay.

6) The Bankers bought the CDS's... thus believing they were "covered".

Looking back on it there's really just a few questions we need to answer to assign blame:

1) Who or what decided to loosen up credit? Why?

2) How was it that the securitized mortgages were rated wrongly as AAA? Who's at fault for that?

3) How was AIG allowed to insure more than it could ever pay back?

That little people spent on paper real estate gains is understandable. We've been trained to believe (except perhaps in California) that real estate doesn't go down... "They ain't makin' any more"... right? So lots of little people finally felt they where getting thier piece of the pie.

However, what is not understandable is how the entire mortgage industry, rating industry and insurance industry didn't realize the hole they were digging as *they* were supposed to be the experts.

So the big question is... "How did these supposed experts dig this hole?"

Or perhaps, what led to an environment where they could.

Essentially there was some sort of perfect storm or comedy of errors here that now has the wonderful side effect that the little folks are going to pay for it all anyway...

Funny, when little people were paying *way* to much for houses... no one cared... when the devalued (from peak) assets ended up as Wall Street getting screwed... Oh *NOW* we have a crisis...

I know I didn't buy a home the whole time this was going on because the prices were *way* out of line with my salary... Now I'm likely to end up living in my car before it's over. And, I didn't have a dime in the game...

Thanks all you Wall Street Rocket Scientists.

[JMadison]

Originally Posted by stan4

I contend the liberals would be responsible for pandering to and creating generations of entitled, helpless 'victims' who are responsible for none of their own actions...ripe for the picking of greedy banks and corporations who readily promise them their favorite of all favorite things: Something for Nothing.

As to the housing crash or problems or bad loans or whatever...

No one forced anyone who could not afford a house to take a bad loan and buy it. Again, simple personal greed on the part of the consumer. He is responsible for his bad credit card debt, he is responsible for his foreclosure, he is responsible for his own financial destiny.

Problem is this... *we* are losing jobs because the finance industry (who are the supposed experts and should've not enabled excess borrowing) let this happen.

If only the over extended were getting hit, I'd agree with you, as I stayed out of the housing market during all this. However, many, many of us will get hit with the costs of this from many direction. Many of us that weren't even involved.

[JMadison]

Originally Posted by saganista

Yes, it is. Overly smug and self-assured Wall Streeters given free rein by a laissez-faire bunch of regulators with the political arm of the Bush administration doing all it could to clear the path for them. Danger warnings begin piling up by late 2003 and all through 2004...all ignored Damn the torpedos. Full speed ahead. And now we've been sunk for our trouble.

Background on how it actually happened

I'm not so sure. I've heard it said on talk radio that the majority of the big wigs and powerful on Wall Street are Democrats. Not to stir up racial issues, but some say Jewish Democrats.

[mrbob]

Originally Posted by OSUGUY87

Obama is not the change people voted for, he is the same old washington politics we have always had!

That is one of the most ignorant statements I've ever read on this forum.

Obama has already instituted tremendous change - his making an issue and using pressure to force AIG to recall the bonuses is something you would never ever see under a Republican adminstration.

Proposing a plan to move us to national health care is something you'd never, ever see under a Republican administration...

Reducing taxes on 95% of Americans, and allowing the Bush Tax Cuts for the rich to expire is something you'd never ever see under a Republican administration...

Calling for new and tighter regulations of Wall Street and the banks is something you'd never ever see under a Republican administration.

Give me a break!!!

Obama inherited this economic mess - and he is cleaning it up - just don't expect 8 years of terrible mismanagement to be reversed in his first 55 days in office!!!

He inherited a $1.3 Trillion fiscal deficit - and is doing what is necessary to provide fiscal stimulus to try to get us out of this Dubya Depression..

Don't blame him for the deficits we will incur over the next few years as we try desperately to avoid the near-Depression that BUsh and the Republican Congress left us with...

[calipoppy]

Originally Posted by LibertyandJusticeforAll

Fault is the people's for voting for change and hope and the republicans who actually thought they would get a conservative in the white house.
Dont blame me I voted for Ron Paul who did you vote for?
When you get a chance review the actions of congress when Bush as president they can stand right next time on the list of lies and corruption and big government idealogy. Obama is moving it right along nothing new about hope and change and just the same actions I figured he would take anyway.

America will never elect a Ron Paul or Ralph Nader to the presidency...end of story

[spanko75]

Ron had great ideas that we all want, but they were all unrealistic.