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Old 03-25-2009, 03:25 PM
 
Location: OB
2,404 posts, read 3,717,395 times
Reputation: 879

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HR 1388 - Generations Invigorating Volunteerism and Education Act

SEC. 1304. PROHIBITED ACTIVITIES AND INELIGIBLE ORGANIZATIONS.

...

SEC. 125. PROHIBITED ACTIVITIES AND INELIGIBLE ORGANIZATIONS.

(a) Prohibited Activities- A participant in an approved national service position under this subtitle may not engage in the following activities:



(7) Engaging in religious instruction, conducting worship services, providing instruction as part of a program that includes mandatory religious instruction or worship, constructing or operating facilities devoted to religious instruction or worship, maintaining facilities primarily or inherently devoted to religious instruction or worship, or engaging in any form of religious proselytization.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Constitution of the United States
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof ; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.
WOW! Isn't going to church or temple engaging in religious instruction? I'm AmeriCorps alumni and most of the volunteers I worked along side in National Service were religious. I cannot believe they snuck that into the bill.
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Old 03-25-2009, 03:30 PM
 
42,727 posts, read 27,419,260 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mossomo View Post
HR 1388 - Generations Invigorating Volunteerism and Education Act

SEC. 1304. PROHIBITED ACTIVITIES AND INELIGIBLE ORGANIZATIONS.

...

SEC. 125. PROHIBITED ACTIVITIES AND INELIGIBLE ORGANIZATIONS.

(a) Prohibited Activities- A participant in an approved national service position under this subtitle may not engage in the following activities:



(7) Engaging in religious instruction, conducting worship services, providing instruction as part of a program that includes mandatory religious instruction or worship, constructing or operating facilities devoted to religious instruction or worship, maintaining facilities primarily or inherently devoted to religious instruction or worship, or engaging in any form of religious proselytization.



WOW! Isn't going to church or temple engaging in religious instruction? I'm AmeriCorps alumni and most of the volunteers I worked along side in National Service were religious. I cannot believe they snuck that into the bill.

Wow!---guess you didn't read the whole sentence. Lots of times, when you read an entire sentence, you'll find meaning that isn't in a phrase pulled from a sentence.
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Old 03-25-2009, 03:56 PM
 
Location: OB
2,404 posts, read 3,717,395 times
Reputation: 879
Quote:
Originally Posted by DC at the Ridge View Post
Wow!---guess you didn't read the whole sentence. Lots of times, when you read an entire sentence, you'll find meaning that isn't in a phrase pulled from a sentence.
I see the main idea as prohibited activities with six independent supporting clauses. Activities is plural right? Why shouldn't I think these are independent clauses supporting one main idea which happens to be plural?

Prohibited activities:

1) Engaging in religious instruction,
2) conducting worship services,
3) providing instruction as part of a program that includes mandatory religious instruction or worship,
4) constructing or operating facilities devoted to religious instruction or worship,
5) maintaining facilities primarily or inherently devoted to religious instruction or worship,
6) or engaging in any form of religious proselytization.

Last edited by mossomo; 03-25-2009 at 04:22 PM..
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Old 03-25-2009, 03:59 PM
 
Location: Charleston Sc and Western NC
9,274 posts, read 24,884,747 times
Reputation: 4711
I think there' a Loop Hole to this Crap Bill.
Put your kids in private school or home school. Then they can't turn them into zombies.
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Old 03-25-2009, 04:07 PM
 
13,180 posts, read 14,047,392 times
Reputation: 4542
A particpant in the program may not engage in "religious instruction, conducting worship services, providing instruction as part of a program that includes mandatory religious instruction or worship, constructing or operating facilities devoted to religious instruction or worship, maintaining facilities primarily or inherently devoted to religious instruction or worship, or engaging in any form of religious proselytization."

What's the problem here? You don't get to use public money to promote your religion as part of the subsidized government program....Use your own money for that.

....Don't like the rules???? Don't take the public money.
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Old 03-25-2009, 04:32 PM
 
Location: OB
2,404 posts, read 3,717,395 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by padcrasher View Post
providing instruction as part of a program
Providing instruction as part of a program, is independent of engaging in religious instructions. These are two different activities.

And it's not about any money. It's about volunteerism and who can volunteer. And looks like there is a restriction upon religious people who attend services like temple or church from now participating in national service. That is my concern.
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Old 03-25-2009, 04:37 PM
 
13,180 posts, read 14,047,392 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mossomo View Post
Providing instruction as part of a program, is independent of engaging in religious instructions. These are two different activities.

And it's not about any money. It's about volunteerism and who can volunteer. And looks like there is a restriction upon religious people who attend services like temple or church from now participating in national service. That is my concern.
You can't read in context...religous groups are allowed to participate as long as they keep their religious material apart from the instruction having to do with the government program.


This is a common standard for programs and it's in effect today. Plenty of religious organizations accept public money to carry out social programs and they are required to adhere to guidlines keeping their religous views out of the mix...

Just stop trying to use public money to promote your fairly tales. It's a simple as that...Think what you want just keep taxpayer money out of it.
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Old 03-25-2009, 05:03 PM
 
Location: Houston, Texas
10,434 posts, read 47,289,632 times
Reputation: 10523
Quote:
Originally Posted by EasilyAmused View Post
I think there' a Loop Hole to this Crap Bill.
Put your kids in private school or home school. Then they can't turn them into zombies.
Give them a little bit more time. They will get to it.
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Old 03-25-2009, 11:51 PM
 
Location: OB
2,404 posts, read 3,717,395 times
Reputation: 879
Quote:
Originally Posted by padcrasher
You can't read in context
So I'm reading to much into the letter of the law and not the context of it?

See, I get worried because when I read the First Amendment of the United States, "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances", the context doesn't say to me that the State remains Godless. The Amendment is among others, is to prevent the establishment of an intolerant religious dictatorship like what is formerly Persia. That is in context.

Quote:
Originally Posted by padcrasher View Post
This is a common standard for programs and it's in effect today.
So there is precedent in public policy and government programs? Tell me about it.

You are coming across as pompous. You are better served to simply spell it out for people like me. If you have precedent in public policy, explain the policy to me and others. That's what I want to hear. I asked a question for a reason. You are so caught up in yourself you fail to realize that common, is not COMMON to everyone.

I started the thread to try to figure something out, to learn something. And you fail as the teacher as you are too obtuse and coarse to understand how to spread your message. Why dont you start over with me. I'm very receptive to explanations and logic, point me towards a source or two.

Quote:
Just stop trying to use public money to promote your fairly tales. It's a simple as that...Think what you want just keep taxpayer money out of it.
Fairy tales, cite any fairy tale or use of public money I promoted on these boards. Search mossomo. You're including me in a demographic I dont belong.
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Old 03-26-2009, 12:15 AM
 
Location: Unperson Everyman Land
35,932 posts, read 23,245,169 times
Reputation: 10908
Quote:
Originally Posted by mossomo View Post
I see the main idea as prohibited activities with six independent supporting clauses. Activities is plural right? Why shouldn't I think these are independent clauses supporting one main idea which happens to be plural?

Prohibited activities:

1) Engaging in religious instruction,
2) conducting worship services,
3) providing instruction as part of a program that includes mandatory religious instruction or worship,
4) constructing or operating facilities devoted to religious instruction or worship,
5) maintaining facilities primarily or inherently devoted to religious instruction or worship,
6) or engaging in any form of religious proselytization.


Yeah, nice come back DC at the Ridge!
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