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How would my sending extra money to the government (the IRS would reject it, by the way) make any difference in the matter of whether the wealthy as a group should pay higher taxes? Some of you should try a little harder to stay on topic. Juvenile diversions do not further the discussion...
Your the one who got here and proclaimed that your not paying enough, it wasnt an argument that we suggested, its an argument that you suggested.
p.s. the IRS does not reject extra money, they actually welcome it and have a special PO box setup just for such donations..
Certain people, yes. None of the people who got the lion's share of the Bushie tax cuts had any actual need for that money. The people whom it was taken from did.
Who was it taken from? In the event your math is very bad, the top pay more under Bush's plan, not less, and in fact, the bottom 50% only pay 3.46% of all taxes. In addition, Bush raised funding for seniors and the poor, entered the White House as a fiscal conservative, left a liberal spender..
Originally Posted by saganista I'm in the top tax bracket, and even after the AMT, I'm paying about 20 cents per dollar of AGI in income tax. You think I'm overtaxed at that level? You think I'd shrivel up and die if it went to 23 cents or 24? What a bunch of dreamers...
So you don' t have to pay city tax, state tax, SS tax , medicare, like the rest of us do. If you are in the top 1% as you claim ("I'm in the top tax bracket") then I am sure your income tax is not just 20% of your AGI.
Oh and BTW......
Originally Posted by saganista How would my sending extra money to the government (the IRS would reject it, by the way) make any difference in the matter of whether the wealthy as a group should pay higher taxes? Some of you should try a little harder to stay on topic. Juvenile diversions do not further the discussion...
Hey, I have great news for you! There is a box you can check on your 1040 that you can give extra money. It's a volunteer thing. You must have missed that little tidbit of info. You still have time, April 15th isn't here yet
Those are deductions, actually. Deductibles you'll find in an insurance policy.
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Originally Posted by pghquest
Obviously you are because the top tax bracket isnt 20%.
Deductions or no, nobody pays an effective rate that is equal to their marginal rate.
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Originally Posted by pghquest
In addition, you paying 20% does nothing to mitigate the topic of the thread, it does not mean that the top 50% of income payers are not paying 96.54% of all income.
Your fact (which is out of date) says nothing about itself. Should the lion's share of taxes be paid by the poorest folks or the richest folks? Did you factor in that welfare reform creates refundable tax credits that skew the numbers for the bottom 50%? How does their total federal tax burden shape up?
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Originally Posted by pghquest
Since your more then willing to pay more, please voluntarily do so and let us know when you've sent the check..
Childish, as I noted before. The issue is tax policy. Try to stick to it.
People paying more in taxes are not sacraficing or having trouble making ends meet with their basic bills.
Ummm, hello - I know a LOT of people who sacrificed in many ways and scrimped for years building their business. So then the business finally starts to pay off and they shouldn't then be able to enjoy the fruits of their labor?
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The average american family makes $56K a year. Savings has dwindled among the middle income brackets? Why.. because they are treading water to pay for the roof over their head and their other neccesities. They are slowly slipping into the "poor" category.
Different areas have different costs of living - come to my area and make that - you are living good. Also, not saying all, but America as a whole
was pretty much living beyond their means.
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I don't hear anyone in the top brackets willing to lower their bracket simly because they are paying more in taxes?
Actually, a lot of business owners in their 50's and 60's are saying if things get too crazy, they are going to pack up their toys and call it quits (close their business). They have at least a decent little nestegg for retirement, so why keep working 70-80 hours a week, worry about keeping your business going (which BTW, you may not believe this, but companies do care about keeping their people working with decent pay and health care), and go through the headaches when all you do is keep getting blasted by the govt and people who resent your income.
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I would also be able to use that expendable income to shelter some of my income..
If you know how, please share - cuz that average business owner out there can't find any shelters.
Your the one who got here and proclaimed that your not paying enough, it wasnt an argument that we suggested, its an argument that you suggested.
My situation is illustrative. And you still haven't answered as to whether 20 cents on the dollar is such a terrible thing. That's the same 20 cents that thousands of others in my situation are paying. They are all laughing over people whose entire incomes are smaller than our taxes and still think we have it really tough. I can go out and drop $500 on dinner and not think anything of it. Can you?
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Originally Posted by pghquest
p.s. the IRS does not reject extra money, they actually welcome it and have a special PO box setup just for such donations..
You can send extra money to the Secretary of the Treasury to reduce the public debt. Hundreds of school classes across the country do that every year. If you overpay your taxes, however, the IRS will send the money back.
Ummm, hello - I know a LOT of people who sacrificed in many ways and scrimped for years building their business. So then the business finally starts to pay off and they shouldn't then be able to enjoy the fruits of their labor?
I didnt' say they didn't deserve to enjoy the fruit of their labor. My point was DESPITE their higher tax bracket they DO get to enjoy the fruit of their labor. The lower tax brackets don't (the middle) The fruits of their labor go to their taxes and then the neccesities in life.. not much expendable. My point again, was that they ARE enjoying the fruit of their labor despite their taxes.
People were living "beyond their means" is an excuse that people make to dismiss the plight of the middle class. Actually I'm wondering if the middle can still be called the middle. Because your right.. the middle have had to borrow just in order to maintain "middle" status. I suppose the upper brackets would be happy if we all started living like the "poor" by giving up the "middle" type of things in which we are used to. No one ever strives to live in a class beyond what they were raised in. I was the child of a middle income family.. never had a huge fancy house.. but a modest one. Drove used cars .. not really a new one until I was about 16 my parents finally bought their first brand new car..a minivan. We had cable growing up and eventually internet (it was dial up AOL then), we had computer in the house and a TV in our bedrooms and the living room.. a VCR. My parents were able to have those things, save and have 401K's.. heck my mom didnt even have to work. She originally went to work for the "extra" money when we were off in school.. We even managed to take little vacations to places like lake George and Tennessee and trips to Montana to visit relatives.
I don't expect much more than that.. nothing fancy. Should I live like a poor person working a middle income job??
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Different areas have different costs of living - come to my area and make that - you are living good. Also, not saying all, but America as a whole
was pretty much living beyond their means.
That is absolutely true. You are speaking to someone who was born and raised and recently relocated from Long Island NY. I'm well aware that cost of living is a HUGE factor. I also spent a lot of time selling homes to those in the "top brackets" and they were no worse for wear, thank you. They had a lot of cash equity, investments, savings and drove nice cars. Most of those I sold to managed to have 20% down payment on the houses they bought.. which was in the 600K - 2 mil range.
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Actually, a lot of business owners in their 50's and 60's are saying if things get too crazy, they are going to pack up their toys and call it quits (close their business). They have at least a decent little nestegg for retirement, so why keep working 70-80 hours a week, worry about keeping your business going (which BTW, you may not believe this, but companies do care about keeping their people working with decent pay and health care), and go through the headaches when all you do is keep getting blasted by the govt and people who resent your income.
Why is this about "resenting their income" I don't resent their income. What I resent is the notion that they are working harder than someone else simply because they make more. How hard you work is not always reflected in their "pay". I also resent that someone that has a "nest egg" is complaining abuot their tax burden when they were able to amass that "nest egg". My point is that most American families can not amass a nest egg while meeting their obigations.
If you know how, please share - cuz that average business owner out there can't find any shelters.
There are plenty of right offs and with good income there can be tax shelters inwhich to invest your money..
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