Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
When an anti-smoker uses the argument that cigarette smoke contains carcinogens as the foundation for their position, then dangers of auto exhaust is absolutely appropriate to bring up. These people are complaining about air pollution, yet they refuse to acknowledge that car exhaust is far more dangerous than cigarette smoke.
When was the last time someone closed the garage door and committed suicide by lighting a cigarette?
It's a fair point to bring up, and it highlights the hypocrisy of the anti-smoking crowd with amazing clarity. That's probably why they do things like claim it's a "diversion"...
NewToCA (a non-smoker, btw) has asked several times in this thread for a link to a study - any study - that scientifically proves that 2nd hand smoke is dangerous. The anti-anti-smoking crowd isn't relying on junk science or ignoring science altogether. In fact, I would have to say that it's the other way around.
The reality is that it hasn't been proven that 2nd hand smoke is at all dangerous. If you believe otherwise, find the proof and post it here. Note that "proof" means an actual study, including methodology, not an article from an anti-smoking organization claiming that it's dangerous.
You brought up the issue of the "science". Let's see if you can find the science to back up your claim. The onus is on you to prove that your assertion is true. It should be easy, right? I mean, it's common knowledge, so finding that science should be a snap, right?
The new SCHIP taxes are federal taxes, not state taxes, and they go into the general fund. Not a single penny of that money is designated to go either to the state in which it was collected or any health care program.
The vast majority are. Do you assume that everyone you see without a cigarette hanging out of their mouth at the exact moment you see them is a non-smoker?
I've met plenty of non-smokers who were inconsiderate jerks, but that doesn't mean that I think all non-smokers are. To do so would be just plain silly. Smokers are people, and people can be inconsiderate, regardless of whether or not they partake in a habit you dislike. What other stereotypes do you promote? Are all asians good at math? Are black people naturally better at basketball than white people? Are all jewish people misers? C'mon, tell us what other stereotypes you believe.
Well, I didn't say anything about second-hand smoke, did I? When I have a little more time, e.g not on my lunch hour at a public computer, I'll do a search.
That's fine but realize you made a choice to go there so whatever smells you get are by your own choice.
granted, my point wasn't that it smelled, my point was that when I smoked I really didn't know how bad it smelled.
When I stand in line at a grocery store behind a smoker I know it. He stinks, I don't demand he exit the building but face it if you smoke then you smell like an ashtray. Now, do I have a right to be offended by your smell in a grocery store? Yes, do I have the right to ask you to leave? NO! Just as I can't decide who can and can't enter a store, neither can a smoker demand that I not be sickened by the smell. Your argument that we can basically all just choose to stay home or not complain isn't fair and gives only the smoker rights.
I do steer away from smokers and restaurants that allow smoking (not easy when we were on a road trip across the country- coming from California we were not used to having to check) but on occasion I have to go to a grocery store or a department store and usually through a cloud of smoke. If more people were like you and used a little sense the discussion would not be happening.
Can a person really not wait until completly away from a doorway to light up? Are people to just stay home from everything because smokers have rights?
I think we pretty much agree on everything. I do realize I smell like smoke and it may not smell the greatest to some. Hopefully I will negate this soon when I get my e-cigarette.
I brought this up over on GD thread but its not going well so maybe I will try it here.
Other than the banning of smoking from enclosed public areas (which I am for) I feel cigarettes are getting unfairly ostracized. If a guy wants to go outside and smoke, why should he have to pay unfair taxes? Some claim its so we do not have to pay for the medical expenses when everyone gets sick from smoking, well I would say Obesity falls under the same category, yet nobody does anything about obesity. Why can we tax cigarettes but leave obese people to get as unhealthy as humanly possible??
What's funny and I don't believe defensable in any way is the current federal tax is supposedly for SCHIPS right? This is a health program for kids under the age of 18 of which the majority don't smoke so don't create larger health bills because of it.
So as a smoker who is accused of causing higher health costs for myself why in hades am I paying a targeted tax to fund healthcare for kids for whom it's illegal to smoke and most don't and not myself or other adults that smoke? How does that make any sense except it's an easy group to demonize and then collect more money from. So much for the "no raise in taxes" that the pres promised..
At least for me...
I'm planning a quit date...for about the eighth time in the past 10 years. I wish they would keep pushing the tax up and up until I couldn't afford it any longer. Actually...no. But, at the same time, we DO take more money out of state health care budgets. The state should take some of it back.
It is stupid to smoke, thus those that smoke are stupid.
Tax on stupid, yea, that works for me.
For the stupid that have yet to figure out the formula, stop smoking and you won't be charged the "stupid tax".
Same for the 'other' stupid tax, state looteries, a 100% voluntary tax on stupidity.
If you can't see the tyranny in your statement then there is no limit to who can be labeled "stupid" and the potential of being forced by those calling them stupid.Which could be you at some point on one of your pet freedoms.
No one has refuted my statement about automobiles being more destructive to the world than cigs... this makes me sad.
No, I agree. However, those who simply are completely against smoking will never agree. For instance, there is one poster who insists that cars actually do something for society, such as taking person A to point A, while smoking does nothing for society. While this person may have a point about smoking doing nothing for society, I don't really agree w/the ascertation that cars do something for society. If that were the truth, then why do we have mass transit? It accomplishes the very same thing.
No, I agree. However, those who simply are completely against smoking will never agree. For instance, there is one poster who insists that cars actually do something for society, such as taking person A to point A, while smoking does nothing for society. While this person may have a point about smoking doing nothing for society, I don't really agree w/the ascertation that cars do something for society. If that were the truth, then why do we have mass transit? It accomplishes the very same thing.
If you mean get you from Point A to Point B, then yes, mass transit does accomplish the same thing. However, if you mean a car can take you where you actually want to go at the time when you want to go there, well, no, mass transit doesn't accomplish the same thing. And have you ever seen what comes out the rear of a bus?
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
