9 patients cost taxpayers $3 million (Canada, insurance, abuse, government)

[Steve Hazzard]

Originally Posted by harborlady

steve believe me I do understand and feel deep empathy. My grandparents were psychiatric nurses and I got to see more than a few things first hand growing up. I wish medicine were more helpful, but I think research is difficult because individuals are what they are. Sorting out brain chemistry vs mechanical injury vs behavioral issues is like trying to sort out jello.

I'm hoping advances in genetics, maps of the brain, and chemistry that's more compatible with the body can solve more. Psychotropic drugs all too often wind up attacking otherwise healthy organs like liver, kidney, heart etc. What a horrible choice to have to make.

Thanks for your kind remarks. Being an insulin dependent diabetic, I have the same choices, do or die.

[camping!]

Originally Posted by Mike from back east

Key part of the quote: "...Eight of the nine patients have drug abuse problems, seven were diagnosed with mental health issues and three were homeless. Five are women whose average age is 40, and four are men whose average age is 50...

Seven of nine with mental health issues. We need to keep in mind that the GOP Messiah, Reagan, for some reason, decided to shut most of our mental hospitals. Now the emergency rooms, the police and the prisons have to deal with these people, instead of what once was the proper place. Save a penny on mental health care, spend a hundred pennies to clean up the problems due to the penny pinching. Seems it's the GOP way. We're going broke from all the cost cutting. But hey, the wonderful private sector (for-profit hospitals) will surely solve all our problems. Right.

As harborlady so rightly noted, this trend began with Carter. Of course it had the best of intentions - and that was to mainstream people. Unfortunately, one of the worst aspects of mental disorders is that the people who could most benefit from medication are often the ones who refuse to continue to take it. We cannot force anyone to take psychiatric medications. I wish you could figure out a way to solve this dilemma -- but bashing republicans and the 'private sector' is not going to solve anything.

[malamute]

Originally Posted by harborlady

Mike to be fair, that trend started in the 70's based on abuses happening to patients in the hospitals. The institutionlization effect, ACLU issues, a few things going on all at once. Reagan used it to abandon them completely, but this trend started on carters watch. Mental health soft sciences is still very crude, and psychiatry isn't really offering a whole lot of guarantees.

I still think most mental patients don't need to be locked up. It had to be terrible to be locked up in some mental institution just because you were eccentric or someone wanted you gone for whatever reason.

If someone is criminally insane, they have to be locked up, but there has to be something else besides an institution and homelessness for those who aren't criminally insane.

I think if it were me, I'd prefer to be homeless and free to being locked up.

[harborlady]

Carter didn't come up with this plan, but it did begin on his watch. Milton Friedman tough love? Can it apply to all things all the time? I have no patience for drug abusers, and at the same time, I'd rather not have to deal with their nonsense roaming around freely.
I think the gap between knowing what doesn't work and knowing what's a better plan has become a vast chasm the past 35yrs. Doing nothing and letting them wander around doesn't work. The side effects of the psych meds are usually why they avoid staying on them. That or the perception of feeling better, as if completely cured, giving them a false sense of not needing them anymore. At best we offer help with symptoms, not much more.
I've seen group homes that were small, vacant houses purchased & refurbished, 5-6 adults residing with home health aide supervision (backed up by drs) seems to be a fairly economic way to go. I guess it depends on what level of autonomy they can handle. I'm pretty sure these 9 people are not as rational or responsible for themselves as people would hope. This is another example of how they become everyones problem when we don't deal with it head on somehow. The worse stories are the mentally ill homeless being physically abused by criminal elements.

[Katarina Witt]

Originally Posted by camping!

As harborlady so rightly noted, this trend began with Carter. Of course it had the best of intentions - and that was to mainstream people. Unfortunately, one of the worst aspects of mental disorders is that the people who could most benefit from medication are often the ones who refuse to continue to take it. We cannot force anyone to take psychiatric medications. I wish you could figure out a way to solve this dilemma -- but bashing republicans and the 'private sector' is not going to solve anything.

This trend started in the early 60s, in the Kennedy administration. It sounded so good: community mental health centers. Unintended consequences. I have worked in MH and I don't have all the answers

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communi...tal_Health_Act

[harborlady]

Originally Posted by malamute

I still think most mental patients don't need to be locked up. It had to be terrible to be locked up in some mental institution just because you were eccentric or someone wanted you gone for whatever reason.

If someone is criminally insane, they have to be locked up, but there has to be something else besides an institution and homelessness for those who aren't criminally insane.

I think if it were me, I'd prefer to be homeless and free to being locked up.

There are many shades of grey. I think each patient should be measured for capacity for violence, ability to care for/ defend themselves, ability to be responsible for their actions should be criteria. I'm not suggesting we go back to the 50's. That was a horror show. There is a difference between restricting someones rights to neutralize harm vs punishment of penal system. Mentally disturbed homeless wind up in penal system often, another costly way to go.

[harborlady]

Originally Posted by Katiana

This trend started in the early 60s, in the Kennedy administration. It sounded so good: community mental health centers. Unintended consequences. I have worked in MH and I don't have all the answers

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communi...tal_Health_Act

Ok fair enough. What I saw was hospitals being phased out/ downsized predominantly in 70's, then wholesale in 80's.

[spidermanufacturing]

two people cost american citzens 3 trillion, go figure

[harborlady]

Originally Posted by spidermanufacturing

two people cost american citzens 3 trillion, go figure

stay on point, or take your stream of conscious to a diary.

[Steve Hazzard]

Originally Posted by spidermanufacturing

two people cost american citzens 3 trillion, go figure

And those two persons would be Barama and Little Timmy Guitner?