Mandarin Oriental Hotel fire VERSUS 911/WTC "fire" (identities, how much, insurance)

[jcarlilesiu]

Originally Posted by POhdNcrzy

EinsteinsGhost, nice points. Check out this article and vids about the overheard demolition countdown outside WTC7 late in the day on 9/11.

9/11 First Responder Heard WTC 7 Demolition Countdown

Also there is the WTC owner Silverstein's original quote where he said they decided to "pull" the building, an obvious reference to a controlled demolition.

POhdNcrzy... what do you do for a living?

[proveick]

YouTube - World Trade Center on 9/11 - Sounds of Explosions

[workingclasshero]

explosions dont mean bombs

things in an office building that can EXPLODE

computer monitors
battery backups
emergency lighting
florescent bulds
transformers
breakerboxes
fire extignushers
arisol cans ('dust-off')
cleaning solvents
wax for floors in 5 gallon cans
betteries
car batteries (in underground parking)
car fuel tanks (in underground parking)

etc


explosions dont mean bombs

[jcarlilesiu]

Geez. This is getting ridiculous.

Do any of your conspiracy theory nuts ever accept anything?

We have went over, and over, and over, these claims now, disproving them time and time again with simple explinations... and two months later, here they are again.

Lets assume that the Trade Tower was "pulled".

Can one of you experts in structural engineering, architecture, or controlled demolitions explain to me how the building was wired with thousands of pounds of explosives, with hundreds of miles of wires, with the structural steel columns exposed through very invasive demolition techniques, all performed MONTHS before the building came down.... and not a single person saw it?

Explain that, with an ounce of logic, and then I will concede that the building was a controlled demolition.

I love how these conspiracy theorists never want to say what type of experience they have, what their education is, or what job they do for a living while they make these outrageous claims.

[workingclasshero]

it was done by the anti matter beem gun from the cloaked alien space ship

[proveick]

PBS has a video of Silverstien, the owner, saying he was going to pull WT7 the day of 9/11. How can you do that? RP

[proveick]

YouTube - WTC 7 - Pull It By Larry Silverstein

[workingclasshero]

'pull' has NEVER been used as an explosive demolution term



Silverstein's Quote:

"I remember getting a call from the Fire Department commander, telling me they were not sure they were gonna be able to contain the fire, and I said, you know, 'We've had such terrible loss of life, maybe the smartest thing to do is just pull it.' And they made that decision to pull and then we watched the building collapse."

-Fact which is undisputed by either side, he was talking to the fire commander

-Fact which is undisputed by either side, both are not in the demolition business

Silverstein's spokesperson, Mr. McQuillan, later clarified:

"In the afternoon of September 11, Mr. Silverstein spoke to the Fire Department Commander on site at Seven World Trade Center. The Commander told Mr. Silverstein that there were several firefighters in the building working to contain the fires. Mr. Silverstein expressed his view that the most important thing was to protect the safety of those firefighters, including, if necessary, to have them withdraw from the building."

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"They told us to get out of there because they were worried about 7 World Trade Center, which is right behind it, coming down. We were up on the upper floors of the Verizon building looking at it. You could just see the whole bottom corner of the building was gone. We could look right out over to where the Trade Centers were because we were that high up. Looking over the smaller buildings. I just remember it was tremendous, tremendous fires going on. Finally they pulled us out. They said all right, get out of that building because that 7, they were really worried about. They pulled us out of there and then they regrouped everybody on Vesey Street, between the water and West Street. They put everybody back in there. Finally it did come down. From there - this is much later on in the day, because every day we were so worried about that building we didn't really want to get people close. They were trying to limit the amount of people that were in there. Finally it did come down." - Richard Banaciski

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"The most important operational decision to be made that afternoon was the collapse (Of the WTC towers) had damaged 7 World Trade Center, which is about a 50 story building, at Vesey between West Broadway and Washington Street. It had very heavy fire on many floors and I ordered the evacuation of an area sufficient around to protect our members, so we had to give up some rescue operations that were going on at the time and back the people away far enough so that if 7 World Trade did collapse, we [wouldn't] lose any more people. We continued to operate on what we could from that distance and approximately an hour and a half after that order was [given], at 5:30 in the afternoon, World Trade Center collapsed completely" - Daniel Nigro, Chief of Department

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"Early on, there was concern that 7 World Trade Center might have been both impacted by the collapsing tower and had several fires in it and there was a concern that it might collapse. So we instructed that a collapse area -- (Q. A collapse zone?) -- Yeah -- be set up and maintained so that when the expected collapse of 7 happened, we wouldn't have people working in it. There was considerable discussion with Con Ed regarding the substation in that building and the feeders and the oil coolants and so on. And their concern was of the type of fire we might have when it collapsed." - Chief Cruthers

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"Then we found out, I guess around 3:00 [o'clock], that they thought 7 was going to collapse. So, of course, [we've] got guys all in this pile over here and the main concern was get everybody out, and I guess it took us over an hour and a half, two hours to get everybody out of there. (Q. Initially when you were there, you had said you heard a few Maydays?) Oh, yes. We had Maydays like crazy.... The heat must have been tremendous. There was so much [expletive] fire there. This whole pile was burning like crazy. Just the heat and the smoke from all the other buildings on fire, you [couldn't] see anything. So it took us a while and we ended up backing everybody out, and [that's] when 7 collapsed.... Basically, we fell back for 7 to collapse, and then we waited a while and it got a lot more organized, I would guess." - Lieutenant William Ryan

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Regarding WTC 7
This should explain the cause and mechanics of the collapse in great detail. Early on the afternoon of September 11th 2001, following the collapse of WTC 1 & 2, I feared a collapse of WTC 7 (as did many on my staff).

The reasons are as follows:

1 - Although prior to that day high-rise structures had never collapsed, The collapse of WTC 1 & 2 showed that certain high-rise structures subjected to damage from impact and from fire will collapse.

2. The collapse of WTC 1 damaged portions of the lower floors of WTC 7.

3. WTC 7, we knew, was built on a small number of large columns providing an open Atrium on the lower levels.

4. numerous fires on many floors of WTC 7 burned without sufficient water supply to attack them.

For these reasons I made the decision (without consulting the owner, the mayor or anyone else - as ranking fire officer, that decision was my responsibility) to clear a collapse zone surrounding the building and to stop all activity within that zone. Approximately three hours after that order was given, WTC 7 collapsed.

Conspiracy theories abound and I believe firmly that all of them are without merit.

Regards, Dan Nigro
Chief of Department FDNY (retired)

[jimhcom]

No skyscrapers before or after 9/11 have ever collapsed due to fire. and no skyscraperS had been hit by fullyloaded commercial planes at full speed before

The buildings survived the impact of the planes. It was supposedly the fire by your account, and by official explanation that caused the collapse.

the towers fell at free fall speed; despite the fact that the fire was only on the upper floors and that the towers had massive steel frames. the towers did not fall at free speed, and were not a full steel frame
The WTC towers both fell to the Earth very quickly as is timed by seismographs and video. They fell at the rate of free fall; that is, they fell as though NOTHING was in their way. The speed at which they fell totally cancels the theory that they "pancaked" one on top of the other and then stressed one floor after another until the entire mass was in rubble on the ground. According to rate of collapse, the towers fell smoothly and without encountering obstruction or resistance of any kind. That's it! It's impossible for the floors to fall / crash / fall / crash / fall...and get to the ground level in 10 seconds. Starting from the 80th floor, for example, at just ONE second per floor, it would take 80 seconds to fall--eight times too long. Even at only 1/2 second per floor it is STILL four times to slow. Any extraction of this energy for the disaggregation of the concrete would decrease the amount available for conversion to kinetic energy, slowing the speed of the falls. Yet we know that the buildings actually fell in about 9 seconds, only slightly less than an unimpeded free-fall from the same height. This means that very little of the gravitational energy can have gone toward pulverizing the concrete. There is no wiggle room on the laws of physics. For the towers to fall at that rate there had to be NO resistance from each of the floors encountered on the way to the ground.




the molten steel continued to burn for weeks after the implosion, thermite was found in the remains. thermite (aka white phosferous was never found,,that's a lie from steven jones) and 'steel' can be melted by a car's battery and to electrodes

Really? try to melt a steel girder with a car battery and see how far you get. While you are at it explain why the Pentagon fire was quickly extinguished, while the towers burned for weeks and were unable to be extinguished, when they supposedly were all hit by planes carrying similar amounts of fuel.

wtc7 imploded and collapsed at freefall speed even though it was not impacted by any plane. The 9/11 commission could give no reason for the collapse. and you fporget to mention the fact that wtc7 had a building fall on it (tower1) and it was built over a ConEd sub station

On this page you will see pictures of WTC7 prior to it's collapse and after the Tower collapse. There is also a diagram of site footprint. If Tower 1 fell on WTC7 please explain how this happened without first destroying WTC6?
Building 7 Collapse WTC - 9/11 Review

several witnesses including emergency response personnel heard series of explosions prior to collapses. hearing explosions doesnt mean bombs The inverse of this statement is also true.


some of the alleged skyjackers are still alive. totally false
Really? then how do you explain this article by BBC?
BBC NEWS | Middle East | Hijack 'suspects' alive and well




the 9/11 commission deemed the financing of the hijackers was of no importance to the investigation.

All of the suspected terrorists arrested in the weeks after 9/11 were released without charges.

9/11 was followed by the passage of the homeland security act which suspends much of the bill of rights at the government’s discretion.
mine in bold


the 9/11 commission deemed the financing of the hijackers was of no importance to the investigation.

All of the suspected terrorists arrested in the weeks after 9/11 were released without charges.

9/11 was followed by the passage of the homeland security act which suspends much of the bill of rights at the government’s discretion.




In addition to the irregularities in the 9/11 attacks, you also have the anthrax attacks in which the anthrax was traced back to US military labs, but was still very useful in pushing through the Homeland Security Act without anyone even reading it. And don't forget that within hours of the attacks the groundwork for the Iraq war was in progress and falsely tied to National Security. I realize that looking at this whole scenario comprehensively requires a lot of effort, it is much easier to be fat, lazy, and happy.

[proveick]

Bush Admits He Saw 1st Impact Live Before Florida Classroom - Video
RP