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OC Investor2 said, "And I suppose you would think the fact American forces shot on sight any Japanese planes and warships they came upon on Dec 8th is proof that Pearl Harbor was a conspiracy as well?"
Huh??!? Wha???? Logical statements written in the English language, please.....
Okay. I'll try logic. Although something tells me its wasted in a thread on this topic, but hear it goes.....
WASHINGTON (AP) - A small, single-engine plane strayed into restricted air space near the U.S. Capitol on Friday, forcing anxious officials to place the White House in temporary lockdown and take steps to evacuate the U.S. Capitol.
The episode was over within minutes as two F-16 fighter jets and two Coast Guard helicopters were dispatched to intercept the plane and escort it to an airport in Maryland, according to the Federal Aviation Administration.
Guys, I know this is off the topic of steel building fires and demolitions, but you all know what I'm pointing out here right??
Over in just minutes thanks to intercept by Federal agencies. Geez so unlike what happened on 9/11. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm!
implys that the fact military forces acted differently during an airspace encroachment during this incident then they did on 9/11 means that their absence on 9/11 was somehow intentional and evidence of a conspiracy.
I am showing the fallacy of that line of thinking (a term I use reluctantly here) by pointing out that the fact that the military also acted differently to the presence of japanese forces after 12/7/41 then they did beforehand. Ergo your implication is based on a false premise.
I refer all those who want the real truth to look here :
Ground Zero was not treated as a crime scene and never had the proper forensic evaluation. We were not at war and it was a crime. Ghouliani ordered a "scoop and dump" way to soon after the recovery efforts began. The 9/11 commission report was a lot of bunk and from what I have been hearing the head of it is a jerk. BTW...why would any American not want investigations open again considering the fact that there is so much that does not jive. What could it hurt? Nothing! I want the truth, why wouldn't everyone???
'9/11 inquiry head 'tried to shield George Bush'
Philip Zelikow was a friend of Condoleezza Rice
The head of the commission that investigated the Sept 11 terrorist attacks had closer ties to the White House than he admitted and tried to limit the Bush administration's responsibility for the incident, a book claims.
<sigh> Is the the hotel constructed the same way? Not sure if was mentioned but the WTC was quite a unique structure. The design allowed for vast open areas but also contributed to it's collapse. The designers opted for floor space instead of the big windows affording panoramic views common to many larger buildings. The skin of the building wasn't just for looks but a massive load bearing wall. Here's the floor plan for most floors, the yellow area is all open space, no load bearing walls, no pillars, completely open.
What held the towers up was a concrete and steel inner core and the steel girder skin on the outside. The thin outside skin was stabilized by steel and concrete truss floors connecting it to the inner core and was integral part of the construction. As the fires continued to rage these much more fragile and easily heated trusses began to fail adding to the ones already damaged or destroyed during the impact. As more and more failed there was no longer any tension between the outside skin and the inner core. Eventually the skin buckled leading to the collapse.
Other than fuel source you cannot compare any building fire to this unless they are constructed in the same way.
You also have to consider that the force of the impact exposed much of the floors' structure to the flames by blasting out the fireproofing material which on those floors was not asbestos. For fire proofing, you can't beat asbestos. You should also consider the fire strength of the fasteners holding the beams together. Do they weaken under intense heat? If so then while the beams may hold, the fasteners may fail and the same results happen.
Ground Zero was not treated as a crime scene and never had the proper forensic evaluation. We were not at war and it was a crime. Ghouliani ordered a "scoop and dump" way to soon after the recovery efforts began. The 9/11 commission report was a lot of bunk and from what I have been hearing the head of it is a jerk. BTW...why would any American not want investigations open again considering the fact that there is so much that does not jive. What could it hurt? Nothing! I want the truth, why wouldn't everyone???
'9/11 inquiry head 'tried to shield George Bush'
Philip Zelikow was a friend of Condoleezza Rice The head of the commission that investigated the Sept 11 terrorist attacks had closer ties to the White House than he admitted and tried to limit the Bush administration's responsibility for the incident, a book claims.
There alot of distance between an ally on a commision trying to deflect blame & political fallout from an intelligence failure to actually conspiring to blow up the buildings as is inferred by conspiracy theorists
<sigh> Is the the hotel constructed the same way? Not sure if was mentioned but the WTC was quite a unique structure. The design allowed for vast open areas but also contributed to it's collapse. The designers opted for floor space instead of the big windows affording panoramic views common to many larger buildings. The skin of the building wasn't just for looks but a massive load bearing wall. Here's the floor plan for most floors, the yellow area is all open space, no load bearing walls, no pillars, completely open.
What held the towers up was a concrete and steel inner core and the steel girder skin on the outside. The thin outside skin was stabilized by steel and concrete truss floors connecting it to the inner core and was integral part of the construction. As the fires continued to rage these much more fragile and easily heated trusses began to fail adding to the ones already damaged or destroyed during the impact. As more and more failed there was no longer any tension between the outside skin and the inner core. Eventually the skin buckled leading to the collapse.
Other than fuel source you cannot compare any building fire to this unless they are constructed in the same way.
Thank you for your intellegent, factual post that adds to everyone's understanding of the events that awful morning.
Unfortunately I think it will be totally wasted on many here.
WASHINGTON (AP) - A small, single-engine plane strayed into restricted air space near the U.S. Capitol on Friday, forcing anxious officials to place the White House in temporary lockdown and take steps to evacuate the U.S. Capitol.
The episode was over within minutes as two F-16 fighter jets and two Coast Guard helicopters were dispatched to intercept the plane and escort it to an airport in Maryland, according to the Federal Aviation Administration.
Guys, I know this is off the topic of steel building fires and demolitions, but you all know what I'm pointing out here right??
Over in just minutes thanks to intercept by Federal agencies. Geez so unlike what happened on 9/11. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm!
We are in a different world now, things like this are taken much more seriously than they were on 9/10.
You also have to consider that the force of the impact exposed much of the floors' structure to the flames by blasting out the fireproofing material which on those floors was not asbestos. For fire proofing, you can't beat asbestos. You should also consider the fire strength of the fasteners holding the beams together. Do they weaken under intense heat? If so then while the beams may hold, the fasteners may fail and the same results happen.
The weakest part of any framed area is going to be the connection points. A simple weakening of the connecting bolts / rivets could cause them to shear at the connection, thus leading to a structural failure. An impact such as an aircraft flying into the building would be enough to knock the spray foam insulation / fireproofing off the structural members leaving them venerable to the fires that raged below.
Ground Zero was not treated as a crime scene and never had the proper forensic evaluation. We were not at war and it was a crime. Ghouliani ordered a "scoop and dump" way to soon after the recovery efforts began. The 9/11 commission report was a lot of bunk and from what I have been hearing the head of it is a jerk. BTW...why would any American not want investigations open again considering the fact that there is so much that does not jive. What could it hurt? Nothing! I want the truth, why wouldn't everyone???
'9/11 inquiry head 'tried to shield George Bush'
Philip Zelikow was a friend of Condoleezza Rice
The head of the commission that investigated the Sept 11 terrorist attacks had closer ties to the White House than he admitted and tried to limit the Bush administration's responsibility for the incident, a book claims.
why would you place this building as a crime scene when there to my knowledge no fatality's in building 7? You have a collapse due to damage from the attack on the twin towers. There is no crime scene there, it is collateral damage from the crime which was perpetrated on the twin towers.
the tape of interviews of air traffic controllers on-duty on 9/11 was intentionally destroyed by crushing the cassette by hand, cutting the tape into little pieces, and then dropping the pieces in different trash cans around the building.
the FBI long ago found and analyzed the "black box" recorders from the airplanes which hit the Twin Towers, but has consistently denied that they were ever found?
Still wondering : when 9-11 happened, there was an exercise conducted in the US.
When the London bombings happened, an exercise too was just being conducted. Co-incidence?
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