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The answer is simple,we cannot go back to the way we did things,we cannot go back to a society built upon endless and ever expanding credit...we cannot continue to simply borrow and borrow and borrow more money to maintain the system that makes us borrow more....
We have to allow businesses that cannot function to fail,we have to cut spending to the bone,stop maintaining hundreds of thousands of troops around the world,stop being involved overseas,we need to focus TOTALLY on repairing the USA.
Doing the same thing only using more borrowed money makes no sense...if a person did it they wold be called irresponsible,somehow when the fedgov. does it it is saving us.
Well said.
I really don't understand how obama supporters/leftists can think spending trillions we don't have would be a good thing.
Do we remember the screeching from the left about bush's $500 BILLION deficit? Obama will have deficits the likes we have never seen - and they are silent.
The repairing part needs to be expounded upon please. We all can agree that the road we've been on has been wrong on many levels, no matter what people attribute as the primary cause. I want to see an alternative plan for getting america on track. I don't care if you post 50 pages, I will read all of it.
We need to stop bothering with the rest of the world,everything must be done to repair THIS country.
We have allowed this country to fall into disrepair all the while spending billions overseas.
If you are interested,read some of Ron Paul's ideas on what needs to be done.It will be incredibly difficult to turn our nation around but the option is to eventually fail as a nation.
The problem I (and most americans) have with Ron Paul is that no one can see a future. It hasn't been fleshed out. Just about every single youtube video and every bit of literature available from Ron Paul supporters warns and diagnoses, but the cure is vague or absent. That is the disconnect right there.
I can agree with much of what is said and agreed over 25yrs ago that the coast guard really OUGHT to be along the coast by it's very definition, but too many agendas burden the entire agency so there you have it.
Google ron paul economic recovery. You will get 1,500 hits that all amount to complaints and criticisms about what IS, and what is being proposed, but you will not get an answer to the simple question... what is your plan??
So if you know where that plan might be Oz, posting that here would make things much easier. I can't find that needle in a haystack.
Ron Paul's economic recovery plan was apparently to place Peter Schiff in as treasurer. The plan was to follow the economic lessons of Ludwig von Mises and Murray Rothbard. Basically whenever you hear Peter Schiff discuss ways to solve the economic crisis, you are hearing Ron Paul's plan as well.
Here are the basics of Ron Paul's recovery plan.
1. Increase savings and production. People need to start saving and paying down credit card debt, and the US needs to become a net producer and manufacturer of goods once again.
2. Vote no on all bailouts. Instead, the government should begin eradicating grotesque budget deficits and national debt by reigning in profligate spending.
3. Allow the recession to run its course and rebuild quickly from a fresh start. “Let it collapse today so it can prosper tomorrow.” To use a crude analogy, wildfires are devastating in the short term, but they are extremely beneficial in the long run for the entire ecology. Currently, the trillions of dollars of new government spending is akin to pouring gasoline on the fire. It will only serve to exacerbate the problem and delay meaningful recovery.
4. Let the free market operate without inefficient, ineffective, and cumbersome government involvement. The government should enforce the integrity of free markets, not manipulate them.
5. Drastically cut federal spending. It’s time to quit over spending and over borrowing and start living within our means.
6. Cut corporate and personal income taxes to spur savings, job growth, and real industrial production.
7. Minimize corporate regulation. If you allow the free market to operate, businesses and banks which accrue massive debt will fail. More efficient and fiscally responsible banks and institutions will prevail and restore prosperity to the economy.
8. Restore the value of the US dollar. Since 2002, the US dollar has been devalued by nearly 30%. Put a stop to the Federal Reserve setting artificial interest rates and printing trillions of dollars out of thin air. Instead, get the Fed out of the markets and bring back balanced budgets, low taxes, and robust production.
I am not against capitalism. I am against the tilted market that keeps all rewards disproportionately on the top and simultaneously puts a boot on the head of labor when labor needs a raise. Our government did do that when Reagan & the courts undermined the unions. Those consequences, favoring commerce over labor, has had horrible consequences for capitalist system.
For the most part, I'm with you. But I disagree when it comes to unions. Unions have destroyed a lot of companies with outrageous demands and disproportionately high wages (for the work being done). I have visited a GM plant, a tour arranged for our 4-H group by one of the memebers who worked there. I know what kind of money and benefits these plant workers get paid, and I'm here to tell you that they get far more than they're worth when you see what they do. Their work is repetitive, requires little skill (except how to run the robot machinery), and their only responsibility is to keep doing it. Our friend remarked one day (he worked in the paint shop), "I have to watch that (light, or screen ... I don't remember)", he said. "If I push the wrong button, that car gets painted the wrong color." Wow. Such responsibility.
They all drive new cars (and own at least two). Compared to people doing other types of labor and making far less, and with fewer benefits, these people (auto workers) are way over paid.
Secondly, labor, we usually associate only with "blue collar" workers, and often use the term "working people" when we refer to them. But there are other kinds of labor. A person at a desk is doing his particular kind of labor. An engineer is doing labor. The people doing purchasing are doing labor. Even the company president labors. Labor isn't just the guy running machinery or using a tool. Labor is every action, or motion, physical and mental that goes into running a business and producing a product. In a manufacturing plant, you have "direct labor" (those on the production line), and "indirect labor" (engineering, for example).
My point is that I reject this notion that only the so-called "working people" actually work. Everybody that has a job "works".
I am self employed. I not only have to do the "thinking" work (prepare quotations, track my job costs and other expenses, pay my taxes, do the sales and marketing, advertising) I also have to go out and do my installations. It's all "work". I have great respect for the Bill Gates' of the world, because I know what they had to do to get where they are. They don't just sit behind a desk and watch the money roll in. They are watching every aspect of their operation, looking at profit and loss reports, planning for new products, solving production problems, consulting with their engineers and marketing departments, etc. They work hard too. I flatly reject this notion that these people do not earn their money.
Anyone remember this thread I made back in JUNE 2008?
You were all still living in lala land believeing everything they tell you on the news. Wow so much has happened since then, well is anyone awake yet? The best thing you can do now is prepare! I wish you all the best of luck!
The Pension Ponzi scheme Pension insurer shifted to stocks - The Boston Globe (http://www.boston.com/news/nation/washington/articles/2009/03/30/pension_insurer_shifted_to_stocks?mode=PF - broken link)
jobs
Unemployment soars to 8.5 pct.; 13 million jobless - Yahoo! Finance (http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Jobless-rate-bolts-to-85-apf-14841241.html - broken link)
Well, check this out. It's from about a year ago. The irony would be hilarious if it weren't destroying the nation and the hopes of the next generation.
The problem I (and most americans) have with Ron Paul is that no one can see a future. It hasn't been fleshed out. Just about every single youtube video and every bit of literature available from Ron Paul supporters warns and diagnoses, but the cure is vague or absent. That is the disconnect right there.
I can agree with much of what is said and agreed over 25yrs ago that the coast guard really OUGHT to be along the coast by it's very definition, but too many agendas burden the entire agency so there you have it.
Google ron paul economic recovery. You will get 1,500 hits that all amount to complaints and criticisms about what IS, and what is being proposed, but you will not get an answer to the simple question... what is your plan??
So if you know where that plan might be Oz, posting that here would make things much easier. I can't find that needle in a haystack.
How about going BACK to the way we were,using the Constitution and Bill Of Rights to guide our path?
Get rid of the Federal Reserve,it is crazy that the USA has to pay a private company for its own currency.
Go back to a policy of our currency being backed by something more tangible than a promise....this would then limit how much can be spent.
Dismantle the IRS and the tax code.It is unconstitutional and leads to fraud and waste.
Here is the gist of his 2008 economic plan:
The four areas that the plan covers are: 1. Tax Reform: Reduce the tax burden and eliminate taxes that punish investment and savings, including job-killing corporate taxes. 2. Spending Reform: Eliminate wasteful spending. Reduce overseas commitments. Freeze all non-defense, non-entitlement spending at current levels. 3. Monetary Policy Reform: Expand openness with the Federal Reserve and require the Fed to televise its meetings. Return value to our money. 4. Regulatory Reform: Repeal Sarbanes/Oxley regulations that push companies to seek capital outside of US markets. Stop restricting community banks from fostering local economic growth.
Ron Paul's economic recovery plan was apparently to place Peter Schiff in as treasurer. The plan was to follow the economic lessons of Ludwig von Mises and Murray Rothbard. Basically whenever you hear Peter Schiff discuss ways to solve the economic crisis, you are hearing Ron Paul's plan as well.
Here are the basics of Ron Paul's recovery plan.
1. Increase savings and production. People need to start saving and paying down credit card debt, and the US needs to become a net producer and manufacturer of goods once again.
2. Vote no on all bailouts. Instead, the government should begin eradicating grotesque budget deficits and national debt by reigning in profligate spending.
3. Allow the recession to run its course and rebuild quickly from a fresh start. “Let it collapse today so it can prosper tomorrow.” To use a crude analogy, wildfires are devastating in the short term, but they are extremely beneficial in the long run for the entire ecology. Currently, the trillions of dollars of new government spending is akin to pouring gasoline on the fire. It will only serve to exacerbate the problem and delay meaningful recovery.
4. Let the free market operate without inefficient, ineffective, and cumbersome government involvement. The government should enforce the integrity of free markets, not manipulate them.
5. Drastically cut federal spending. It’s time to quit over spending and over borrowing and start living within our means.
6. Cut corporate and personal income taxes to spur savings, job growth, and real industrial production.
7. Minimize corporate regulation. If you allow the free market to operate, businesses and banks which accrue massive debt will fail. More efficient and fiscally responsible banks and institutions will prevail and restore prosperity to the economy.
8. Restore the value of the US dollar. Since 2002, the US dollar has been devalued by nearly 30%. Put a stop to the Federal Reserve setting artificial interest rates and printing trillions of dollars out of thin air. Instead, get the Fed out of the markets and bring back balanced budgets, low taxes, and robust production.
I've read Mises work and think it's fairly sensible. The sticky wicket becomes the bolded portions. The rest is on par with fiscal conservativism of centrists.
Not to start a bash fest but it's important to point out what hand libertarians had in pushing deregulation too far. Community Reinvestment Act - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Quote:
During March 1995 congressional hearings William A. Niskanen, chair of the Cato Institute, criticized the proposals for political favoritism in allocating credit and micromanagement by regulators, and that there was no assurance that banks would not be expected to operate at a loss. He predicted they would be very costly to the economy and banking system, and that the primary long term effect would be to contract the banking system. He recommended Congress repeal the Act.[26]
Attempting to steer by removing controls of the larger organism isn't prudent. You might as well be trying to save a buck buying 3 brake pads for your car. There's a point where so many holes are poked through a piece of paper the only thing that can be done is a complete overhaul. Attacking the guardian isn't useful. They're a temporary stop gap waiting for appropriate adminstrative controls. Below you is a narrow view posted by nononsense presuming he knows the grander scheme but he's so far down in the soup he's convinced the guy standing next to him or over him put him where he is. Nothing could be further from the truth, and I know it because I've personally worn every hat he's referencing. I also didn't limit my personal experience as bellwether. I've been to the garden parties cross networking industry.
I agree with progressives on their stance for consumer protections and guarding public trust issues. I know it's impossible to legislate morality, that markets can correct many ills, but there is no indication that meaningful consequences can happen for those in power without regulation. Corporations are not accountable, but the people running them need to be. Small business owners and fortune 500 accountability standards need to be a level playing field one way or another.
Deregulation... I'm not willing to accept that on face value anymore because it's been abused to facilitate shell games once too often. Specify, I'll listen. Page one should state accountability in no uncertain terms similar to any captain of a ship. Illustrate a long view with full awareness of ramifications. That would be what I was talking about with oz-- show me how that future looks. The way the republican party has expressed deregulation all along amounts to voting themselves out of a job because they're not willing to be responsible/ accountable for anything at all.
Portion in red- absolutely. The gold standard might be dated, however, considering the scale of our economy. Higher priced commodities might be more appropriate to solve this in the future but I believe this task cannot be neglected indefinitely. Standards themselves provide the stable basis for healthy commerce, and that is the primary function of any government when it's not absolving itself of it's own job.
You don't understand fiat currency do you? The US Dollar actually was real money before 1971. It was back by gold, and years before that by silver aswell. When nixon took the USA off the gold standard, our dollar became a "FIAT" currency. This means it's not backed by anything of real value. So add 40 years to 1971....
Btw- I 100% agree in investing in equipment and food. But an average sized home can only hold so much. If you are lucky enough to have some extra cash, dont hold it in dollars. Buy a safe and invest in silver or gold.
Hate to nitpick but, actually the only currency that was real money was that which was issued by the U.S Treasury (silver certificates). Federal Reserve Notes have never been real money according to the Constitution.
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