Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 04-14-2009, 07:20 AM
 
Location: North Cackelacky....in the hills.
19,567 posts, read 21,838,666 times
Reputation: 2519

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by vsmoove View Post
Dude, I would love, love, love for you to give me the citation of the Supreme Court case that ruled that the government cannot force you to do anything that would reveal a past crime. Please forward that case to me immediately because I missed that in my Con Law classes...

Haynes v. U.S.


Haynes v. United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 04-14-2009, 07:22 AM
 
Location: North Cackelacky....in the hills.
19,567 posts, read 21,838,666 times
Reputation: 2519
Quote:
Originally Posted by vsmoove View Post
But those were banned in California, correct? Or were they confiscated if not registered?
You had to register those firearms within a period of time,once that time period expired, you were no longer allowed to register the firearms.

You also could no longer own the firearms.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-14-2009, 07:27 AM
 
Location: Missouri
3,645 posts, read 4,919,303 times
Reputation: 768
Quote:
Originally Posted by oz in SC View Post
You had to register those firearms within a period of time,once that time period expired, you were no longer allowed to register the firearms.

You also could no longer own the firearms.
Just another of the many reason I moved my family out of that totally useless state.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-14-2009, 07:29 AM
 
Location: Londonderry, NH
41,478 posts, read 59,665,850 times
Reputation: 24861
Pelosi & gun control

You only need to register a vehicle if you are going to drive on public roads.

The most important part of defending your self is to get the training on how to do it then purchase an appropriate weapon.

Nancy Pelosi represents a very affluent California district that really believes that criminals will disarm themselves, or can be disarmed by the government, by registration, regulation and eventual confiscation, and such confiscation will make her constituents safer. Disarming the poor has always been the goal of weapons regulation (see NH weapons laws - one paragraph for guns and several for knives, clubs and stones) in the quest for security from criminals.

Disarming criminals has never worked because criminals ignore the law and are, unless they are bankers or financiers, not stupid enough to try robbing while they are weaponless. The only real solution to being physically assaulted and robbed is to be better aware, alert and armed than the criminal. This flies in the face of our society's myth that everybody should give in to an assault and then let the authorities handle the problem. I, personally, do not agree with this approach. First of all you can never be certain a thug will stop with robbing you. He might want to add rape and/or murder to his accomplishments. Second he is very unlikely to be caught or stopped by our police forces (remember CSI is fiction).

I suggest responding to an assault and/or robbery is to use overwhelming force to stop the attack. Like a military force responding to an ambush by attacking the perpetrators a lone civilian should use the same tactic. When attacked respond with a counterattack and do not stop until the thug is completely unable to continue his assault.

The would be victim’s counter attack can be facilitated by carrying and knowing how to respond to the attack by withdrawing until you have room to counterattack and then counterattacking. Even a small frail woman can handle a Derringer type pistol and a .22 bullet in the face discourages most muggers. A bigger gun with bigger bullets just lets you stay further away from your attacker.

One of the problems with this response to an assault is taking the risk of becoming a killer. IMHO better to be a live guilt ridden killer than a corpse on the coroners table. Another is explaining to the authorities why you just shot and/or killed this person. Some police are annoyed by your usurping their monopoly on using force. My suggestion would be to say I was attacked and find a lawyer.

IMHO - Full assault rifles, in the context of our society, are dangerous toys and, excepting their visual deterrent effect, are not very useful a defensive weapon principally because they are designed to be used a ASSAULT weapons. Appropriately sized pistols and semi-automatic hand guns carried concealed are appropriate for self defense as are short barreled (illegal BTW) shot guns for defending a dwelling.

To repeat myself:
[SIZE=3] [/SIZE]
The most important part of defending your self is to get the training on how to do it then purchase an appropriate weapon.
[SIZE=3] [/SIZE]
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-14-2009, 07:37 AM
 
479 posts, read 659,865 times
Reputation: 279
I have been taught that if you ever have to shoot someone on your property you must empty the gun into them, after all if you had time to fire 1 well placed shot then you must have had time to formulate another less violent plan according to some.

Then as you call 911 you say, "Send cops, there has been a shooting!"
Never say "Send cops, I shot someone."

When the cops arrive you say, "They were coming at me, I was in fear for my life." Then you say, "Oh my God, I could be sued, I need my lawyer."

Then you shut up and don't say another word to the cops since most of them can't be trusted either.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GregW View Post
Pelosi & gun control

You only need to register a vehicle if you are going to drive on public roads.

The most important part of defending your self is to get the training on how to do it then purchase an appropriate weapon.

Nancy Pelosi represents a very affluent California district that really believes that criminals will disarm themselves, or can be disarmed by the government, by registration, regulation and eventual confiscation, and such confiscation will make her constituents safer. Disarming the poor has always been the goal of weapons regulation (see NH weapons laws - one paragraph for guns and several for knives, clubs and stones) in the quest for security from criminals.

Disarming criminals has never worked because criminals ignore the law and are, unless they are bankers or financiers, not stupid enough to try robbing while they are weaponless. The only real solution to being physically assaulted and robbed is to be better aware, alert and armed than the criminal. This flies in the face of our society's myth that everybody should give in to an assault and then let the authorities handle the problem. I, personally, do not agree with this approach. First of all you can never be certain a thug will stop with robbing you. He might want to add rape and/or murder to his accomplishments. Second he is very unlikely to be caught or stopped by our police forces (remember CSI is fiction).

I suggest responding to an assault and/or robbery is to use overwhelming force to stop the attack. Like a military force responding to an ambush by attacking the perpetrators a lone civilian should use the same tactic. When attacked respond with a counterattack and do not stop until the thug is completely unable to continue his assault.

The would be victim’s counter attack can be facilitated by carrying and knowing how to respond to the attack by withdrawing until you have room to counterattack and then counterattacking. Even a small frail woman can handle a Derringer type pistol and a .22 bullet in the face discourages most muggers. A bigger gun with bigger bullets just lets you stay further away from your attacker.

One of the problems with this response to an assault is taking the risk of becoming a killer. IMHO better to be a live guilt ridden killer than a corpse on the coroners table. Another is explaining to the authorities why you just shot and/or killed this person. Some police are annoyed by your usurping their monopoly on using force. My suggestion would be to say I was attacked and find a lawyer.

IMHO - Full assault rifles, in the context of our society, are dangerous toys and, excepting their visual deterrent effect, are not very useful a defensive weapon principally because they are designed to be used a ASSAULT weapons. Appropriately sized pistols and semi-automatic hand guns carried concealed are appropriate for self defense as are short barreled (illegal BTW) shot guns for defending a dwelling.

To repeat myself:
[SIZE=3] [/SIZE]
The most important part of defending your self is to get the training on how to do it then purchase an appropriate weapon.
[SIZE=3] [/SIZE]
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-14-2009, 07:39 AM
 
Location: North Cackelacky....in the hills.
19,567 posts, read 21,838,666 times
Reputation: 2519
"I was in fear of my life."

"I have nothing more to say."
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-14-2009, 07:52 AM
 
1,655 posts, read 3,242,601 times
Reputation: 508
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeepejeep View Post
Aaahhh... the Haynes case. I was wondering what you guys were referring to. That is a very interesting case but it's a stretch to state that the case disallows registration... the law that was being considered was very different than what is being contemplated now. The registration law basically targeted criminals. You only had to register the gun if you did not purchase the gun in accordance with the laws of the time... get it? It was a very odd law targeted directly at those who had already circumvented the laws in acquiring the gun. So the petitioner claimed that since the act of registration itself was incriminating in that it almost guaranteed his prosecution, it was violative of the 5th Amendment. The court agreed... and I have to think about this more but I think I agree as well.

Still, this says nothing about the constitutionality of a properly drafted registration law that simply states that everyone must register their gun under the law. Under that scenario, the court has repeatedly held, most famously under the Supreme Court's Heike ruling, that prosecutions that may arise under normal course of business does not violate the 5th Amendment. So, for example, if you have to register your car and a crime is revealed during the registration, you cannot escape punishment. If you do your taxes and a crime is revealed, you cannot escape punishment. Only where the requirement is targeted at a group that is very likely to incriminate themselves may the 5th Amendment protection be used.

It's clever for gun rights folks to use this case but it only pertained to a very specific law that virtually guaranteed your prosecution. Don't rely on it as a ruling that bans all registration; if it did, I would think the California ban would have been overturned rather quickly.

Hey, thanks for sending me the case... it was a good read. I suggest that you read it when you get a moment so you can understand why it's not a good case to cite: HAYNES V. UNITED STATES, 390 U. S. 85 (1968) -- US Supreme Court Cases from Justia & Oyez
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-14-2009, 07:57 AM
 
Location: North Cackelacky....in the hills.
19,567 posts, read 21,838,666 times
Reputation: 2519
Registration laws cannot be applied to felons as it would be self incrimination.

Only those who are not felons can be prosecuted for not registering a firearm.

How does this stop gun crime exactly??
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-14-2009, 07:57 AM
 
1,655 posts, read 3,242,601 times
Reputation: 508
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeepejeep View Post
Registered and confiscated if not turned in or removed from the state.
jeep, how did that work exactly? Did registration of all firearms come first and then the ban on semiautos? Did they then use the knowledge of the registration to contact those that owned the semiautos?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-14-2009, 08:09 AM
 
1,986 posts, read 4,059,543 times
Reputation: 1343
Not being up on gun laws, I have a couple thoughts.

Registering guns makes sense. It just does, but criminals don't use legitamately registered guns. How does gun registration quell crime? It doesn't.

In the OP, Pelosi said something about keeping guns from crossing state lines. What country does she live in? Nobody can be stopped from carrying a gun, or anything else across STATE lines. People carry dead bodies across state lines. Unless she thinks she can put border patrol along every state line in America, she'll have to rethink that one.

I do think automatic weapons and assault weapons should be outlawed.

Last edited by stormy night; 04-14-2009 at 08:21 AM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:19 AM.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top