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Old 04-13-2009, 10:55 PM
 
8,978 posts, read 16,332,252 times
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This story makes no sense to me. I realize that fish stocks "live where they live"....and that aggressive, high-tech 'overfishing' is a problem world wide. But "dumping toxic waste", or other hazardous materials? Why would 'affluent Europeans' send their waste all the way THROUGH the Mediterranean Sea, THROUGH the Suez Canal, down the WHOLE LENGTH of the Red Sea, and THEN invite criticism by dumping it in Somali coastal waters, right in "front of everyone" passing by in a busy international shipping lane, where they'd be 'seen' by any of the JILLIONS of passing vessels heading from Europe to South Asia, or vice-versa?. Why not just go a few miles farther and dump the stuff beyond Somali waters?

I realize Somalia was once an Italian colony....and a connection was hinted at with The Mafia doing 'the dirty work'...but this 'dumping' story sounds suspect. If you're going to "dump", why dump near ANY nation? Why not just dump far at sea?

Am I missing something here?
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Old 04-13-2009, 11:02 PM
 
19,225 posts, read 15,022,449 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by macmeal View Post
This story makes no sense to me. I realize that fish stocks "live where they live"....and that aggressive, high-tech 'overfishing' is a problem world wide. But "dumping toxic waste", or other hazardous materials? Why would 'affluent Europeans' send their waste all the way THROUGH the Mediterranean Sea, THROUGH the Suez Canal, down the WHOLE LENGTH of the Red Sea, and THEN invite criticism by dumping it in Somali coastal waters, right in "front of everyone" passing by in a busy international shipping lane, where they'd be 'seen' by any of the JILLIONS of passing vessels heading from Europe to South Asia, or vice-versa?. Why not just go a few miles farther and dump the stuff beyond Somali waters?

I realize Somalia was once an Italian colony....and a connection was hinted at with The Mafia doing 'the dirty work'...but this 'dumping' story sounds suspect. If you're going to "dump", why dump near ANY nation? Why not just dump far at sea?

Am I missing something here?
Good question.

Also, who would want lobster etc. living in European toxic waste?

Looks more like a directed assault against the people of Somalia.

Who would they go to for help?

Last edited by ergohead; 04-13-2009 at 11:10 PM..
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Old 04-13-2009, 11:03 PM
 
Location: OB
2,404 posts, read 3,890,521 times
Reputation: 879
Default Nonsense.

European illegal fishing and toxic waste dumping in Somali waters are both independent of global cargo transportation. The shippers on these cargo vessels do not deserve to be held against their will under hostile potentially life-taking intent.

The logic presented in the Johann Hari article evades me. I do not see how an innocent person being incarcerated against their will for the crimes commited by another proves anything.

Last edited by mossomo; 04-13-2009 at 11:16 PM..
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Old 04-13-2009, 11:13 PM
 
19,225 posts, read 15,022,449 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mossomo View Post
European illegal fishing and toxic waste dumping in Somali waters are both independent of global cargo transportation. The shippers on these cargo vessels do not deserve to be held against their will under hostile potentially life-taking intent.

The logic presented in the Johann Hari article evades me. I do not see how an innocent person being incarcenated against their will for the crimes commited by another proves anything.
But for the grace of God, that could have been Obama.
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Old 04-14-2009, 08:43 AM
 
2,539 posts, read 2,696,081 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mossomo View Post
European illegal fishing and toxic waste dumping in Somali waters are both independent of global cargo transportation. The shippers on these cargo vessels do not deserve to be held against their will under hostile potentially life-taking intent.

The logic presented in the Johann Hari article evades me. I do not see how an innocent person being incarcerated against their will for the crimes commited by another proves anything.

They should know we found a easier way to steal billions, no it aint WMD, its called CDO. LOL!
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Old 04-14-2009, 08:53 AM
 
Location: Harrisonville
1,837 posts, read 2,333,947 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KRAMERCAT View Post
""Somebody is dumping nuclear material here. There is also lead, and heavy metals such as cadmium and mercury - you name it." Much of it can be traced back to European hospitals and factories, who seem to be passing it on to the Italian mafia to "dispose" of cheaply."

At the same time, other European ships have been looting Somalia's seas of their greatest resource: seafood. We have destroyed our own fish-stocks by over-exploitation - and now we have moved on to theirs. More than $300m worth of tuna, shrimp, lobster and other sea-life is being stolen every year by vast trawlers illegally sailing into Somalia's unprotected seas. The local fishermen have suddenly lost their livelihoods, and they are starving. Mohammed Hussein, a fisherman in the town of Marka 100km south of Mogadishu, told Reuters: "If nothing is done, there soon won't be much fish left in our coastal waters."

"This is the context in which the men we are calling "pirates" have emerged. Everyone agrees they were ordinary Somalian fishermen who at first took speedboats to try to dissuade the dumpers and trawlers, or at least wage a 'tax' on them. They call themselves the Volunteer Coastguard of Somalia - and it's not hard to see why. In a surreal telephone interview, one of the pirate leaders, Sugule Ali, said their motive was "to stop illegal fishing and dumping in our waters... We don't consider ourselves sea bandits. We consider sea bandits [to be] those who illegally fish and dump in our seas and dump waste in our seas and carry weapons in our seas." William Scott would understand those words."

You Are Being Lied to About Pirates | CommonDreams.org

I can't agree with the rhetoric, but the part about waste disposal is correct. It isn't just the Italian Mafia though, most of the more backward African governments will dispose of foreign toxic wastes improperly for a small fee.
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Old 04-14-2009, 08:58 AM
 
3,281 posts, read 5,115,552 times
Reputation: 1929
Quote:
Originally Posted by LauraC View Post
Somalia is a dump because of revolving door tribal government. The reason Africa is so ass-backward is because of crooked tribal government always at war with each other and everyone else.

Somalia (03/09)
So Somalia having a sucky government justifies illegal dumping and fishing?

By the way, there are dozens of nations in Africa. Some of them ass backward, some of them are the fastest growing(economically) in the world, few of them are currently involved in wars.

Instead of looking for who's ass-backward, perhaps we should be pointing fingers at who has their head in their ass.
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Old 04-14-2009, 09:00 AM
 
Location: Wisconsin
36,113 posts, read 20,611,544 times
Reputation: 12714
Quote:
Originally Posted by KRAMERCAT View Post
""Somebody is dumping nuclear material here. There is also lead, and heavy metals such as cadmium and mercury - you name it." Much of it can be traced back to European hospitals and factories, who seem to be passing it on to the Italian mafia to "dispose" of cheaply."

At the same time, other European ships have been looting Somalia's seas of their greatest resource: seafood. We have destroyed our own fish-stocks by over-exploitation - and now we have moved on to theirs. More than $300m worth of tuna, shrimp, lobster and other sea-life is being stolen every year by vast trawlers illegally sailing into Somalia's unprotected seas. The local fishermen have suddenly lost their livelihoods, and they are starving. Mohammed Hussein, a fisherman in the town of Marka 100km south of Mogadishu, told Reuters: "If nothing is done, there soon won't be much fish left in our coastal waters."

"This is the context in which the men we are calling "pirates" have emerged. Everyone agrees they were ordinary Somalian fishermen who at first took speedboats to try to dissuade the dumpers and trawlers, or at least wage a 'tax' on them. They call themselves the Volunteer Coastguard of Somalia - and it's not hard to see why. In a surreal telephone interview, one of the pirate leaders, Sugule Ali, said their motive was "to stop illegal fishing and dumping in our waters... We don't consider ourselves sea bandits. We consider sea bandits [to be] those who illegally fish and dump in our seas and dump waste in our seas and carry weapons in our seas." William Scott would understand those words."

You Are Being Lied to About Pirates | CommonDreams.org
So, your point is that the Somali pirates are just a radical offshoot of Green Peace?
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Old 04-14-2009, 10:50 AM
 
Location: Dorchester
2,602 posts, read 4,766,603 times
Reputation: 1089
Do I hear the sound of bleeding hearts crying for the oppressed pirates?

It is a criminal enterprise. Nothing more, nothing less!
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Old 04-14-2009, 01:18 PM
 
19,225 posts, read 15,022,449 times
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Were the pirated ships within territorial waters of Somalia?
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