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Old 04-16-2009, 12:18 PM
 
29,939 posts, read 39,450,111 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by delusianne View Post
Wages havent kept pace with productivity. This has been the case since Reagan's unionbusting days.
Yeah, he had no good reason for doing that. Reagan was the only union card carrying president of The United States of America ever. The reasoning behind that was justified. There is plenty of information with almost all of the "anti" movements being funded by the Soviets, or so the their dossiers say....
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Old 04-16-2009, 12:20 PM
 
29,939 posts, read 39,450,111 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jetgraphics View Post
It's a false prosperity when it's based on selling smoke from the fires of finance.

I don't see "strength" when America no longer has an electronics industry, a textile industry, a shoe industry, a garment industry, and soon to be lost automobile industry.

Where are our manufacturing plants, that once dotted the nation?
(My former employer, IBM Endicott, once had a local payroll of over 15,000. No longer. Endicott, NY, is a rust belt village now, slowly dying.)

Frankly, if international trade were interrupted, for whatever reason, we would be in deep trouble. In other words, we're (insert your favorite expletive deleted here).

We wouldn't be able to fulfill our basic needs with local manufactured goods... at least not for several years. Shucks, we couldn't even fight a protracted conventional war because there aren't any private industries to convert to war production.

Real prosperity is the creation and exchange of usable surplus goods and services, and the time to enjoy them. But you already know that.
Yeah, I worked in both defense contracting and electronic circuit board manufacturing (SMT). Over 100,000 lost all together around 2000. There are other sectors though but this anti capitalism idea will leave us on the ash heap of history. There are technologies out there if allowed to work. Nanotechnology, this new battery technology from MIT where viruses build the batteries. That would revolutionize power saving. There are new HVAC system which work using the efficiencies of the night during the heat of the day, stored efficiency per se. We need to stop reverting back to kindergarten as many would like us to do, all because it's easier to give up than to push forward.
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Old 04-16-2009, 12:22 PM
 
Location: SE Arizona - FINALLY! :D
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Well, considering that this particular week was expected to produce absolutely brutal news (announced profit (or the lack thereof) etc) and therefor a lot of downward pressure on the markets, I'd say that overall, it hasn't gone too awfully bad so far. There was definitely some bad news, but also some encouraging signs as well. The impact on the markets therefor has been pretty much a wash (at least so far). There has been some slight deterioration, but certainly nothing major so it looks like this week may turn out to be a "holding pattern" week (both in regards to the markets and the economy as whole) with good news and bad news more or less balancing each other out.

Overall, I take this to be more evidence that the recession is pretty near the bottom.

Ken

PS - a little backward look at what the expectations were at the beginning of the week:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/30180078/
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Old 04-16-2009, 12:28 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LordBalfor View Post
You left out the massive deficit spending under his (Reagans') administration - quite probably the most important factor.


Ken
Which only worked because there was a goal, the destruction of the Soviet Empire. If the Soviet Union hadn't collapsed the boom would have been much shorter. We were easily set after they fell to take off, but even the first gulf war was over $600 billion, we achieved nothing there really except containment. IMO anyways.
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Old 04-16-2009, 12:33 PM
 
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Obviously there are no instant indicators considering this has been called unprecedented. We've been hovering around current stock prices so people are iffy to make moves. Time will tell...
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Old 04-16-2009, 01:08 PM
 
Location: Washington DC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigJon3475 View Post
Which only worked because there was a goal, the destruction of the Soviet Empire. If the Soviet Union hadn't collapsed the boom would have been much shorter. We were easily set after they fell to take off, but even the first gulf war was over $600 billion, we achieved nothing there really except containment. IMO anyways.
I'll call BS on this. Link to a contemporaneous document? My recollection is that Regan pitched supply-side economics to the public asserting that there would be no deficits. In reality the plan was the "starve the beast"
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Old 04-16-2009, 01:32 PM
 
29,939 posts, read 39,450,111 times
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Then you know very little of the events of that time. It's all easily found, I'm not going to teach you history. If you're really interested I'll give you a starting point:

http://emlab.berkeley.edu/users/cromer/nadraft1108.pdf page 68

The laffer curve says too high or low of taxes and they both hold back growth.
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Old 04-16-2009, 01:34 PM
 
Location: SE Arizona - FINALLY! :D
20,460 posts, read 26,319,675 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigJon3475 View Post
Then you know very little of the events of that time. It's all easily found, I'm not going to teach you history.
Speaking for myself, I know the history well. I'm just not sure I understand what your argument is.

Can you expand on the subject?
I don't quite get your point.


Ken
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Old 04-16-2009, 01:37 PM
 
29,939 posts, read 39,450,111 times
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I'll just say Reagan knew he cut taxes too much hence the increase after he realized he wouldn't be able to cut the government as much as he wanted. You're right Reagan proposed a $1.5 trillion dollar defense budget over 5 years. How successful would that spending have been if the soviet union never fell? We grew our GDP through that deficit spending through technological advances...etc. When nuclear treaty was agreed to the Soviet's collapsed and we were left with much technology and many intelligent people. We found places for them in the private sector for the most part. Now we are going to go into massive debt for infrastructure for green jobs which by all standards loses 2.2 jobs for every 1 gained. I see no real war he has on anything except"rightwingers". What will all of it result in, does he expect another world war?
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Old 04-16-2009, 01:52 PM
 
Location: SE Arizona - FINALLY! :D
20,460 posts, read 26,319,675 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigJon3475 View Post
I'll just say Reagan knew he cut taxes too much hence the increase after he realized he wouldn't be able to cut the government as much as he wanted. You're right Reagan proposed a $1.5 trillion dollar defense budget over 5 years. How successful would that spending have been if the soviet union never fell? We grew our GDP through that deficit spending through technological advances...etc. When nuclear treaty was agreed to the Soviet's collapsed and we were left with much technology and many intelligent people. We found places for them in the private sector for the most part. Now we are going to go into massive debt for infrastructure for green jobs which by all standards loses 2.2 jobs for every 1 gained. I see no real war he has on anything except"rightwingers". What will all of it result in, does he expect another world war?
In regards to the Green jobs, I think the idea is to wean us from dependence on foreign energy sources. To me, that would be a SIGNIFICANT long-term gain for the US economy (and government) in many, many ways.

Ken
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