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This propaganda piece proves nothing. Additionally, you leftists will call anything "torture" that might be uncomfortable for a prisoner. Most of what you call "torture", isn't. And I personally believe we have tortured no one.
Charges of torture are coming from the left-wing extremist groups and media, whose purpose has always been to discredit and malign Bush and his administration, defame America and undermine the war effort. These are people with no love for America. Many have been with us since the 60's (Bill Ayers, American terrorist and Obama's friend, comes to mind).
Obama's purpose in releasing interrogation information was to further incite hatred for the Bush administration, and discredit our military. It serves no good purpose for this information to have been released, and it is unconscionable that a sitting U.S. President would take such action against his predecessor, and subject the United States to additional criticism from our enemies.
One has to ask, "Is this President for us, or against us?" Sadly, I think we know the answer to that question.
Finally, we must be allowed to use some rather harsh interrogation techniques, if we are going to get vital information from captured enemy combatants. Asking them nicely to tell us what we want to know isn't likely to achieve any results.
The prisoners at Guantanamo have been living in exceptionally good conditions, having been fed well with food of their choice for their religion, clothed, and sheltered. Their good living conditions have been well documented by people who have visited, including Congressmen and Senators.
So...you think it was OK to torture to death the apparent taxi driver to bin Laden? They made a documentary about his predicament and it was nominated for an Oscar (it may have won). In the end, WE--you and I Mr. and Mrs. America--hung him by his arms for four straight days. When the guard asked him to stand up and got no response, the guard proceeded to club him at the knees. But some (you perhaps?) don't think this is torture?
I have to go look at a calendar because I must have awoken in the wrong century.
Anybody realize yet that the universe doesn't distinguish between thought and physical substance? To the larger intelligence, they are both the same. Kind of makes you want to edit your mind a bit, doesn't it?
Oh, so now I guess some Hollywood liberal film maker is a credible source? Please. Michael Moore or some type like him? Give me a break. Nothing that comes out of Hollywood is believable.
Tin foil hat time for you... I never thought I would see the day that americans (no matter how small a minority you are) are so accepting of torture in order to protect your party....You NEOCONS are an embarssment to true conservatism.
As though you would know what "true conservatism" is? You cannot even tell me what a "neocon" is. I guess it's supposed to be an insult to be called a "neocon" since you use it in that way. But it's meaning has to be understood. It means many different things to many different people. What does it mean to you?
“High value information came from interrogations in which those methods were used and provided a deeper understanding of the al Qa’ida organization that was attacking this country,†Adm. Dennis C. Blair, the intelligence director, wrote in a memo to his staff last Thursday.
Quote:
Admiral Blair’s assessment that the interrogation methods did produce important information was deleted from a condensed version of his memo released to the media last Thursday. Also deleted was a line in which he empathized with his predecessors who originally approved some of the harsh tactics after the attacks of Sept. 11, 2001.
So obama intentionally deleted information from the memos of his own National Intelligence Director. Did he think no one would notice?
I don't like very many Democrats. But I really really ****ing hate Republicans.
Apparently you hate all Americans too, because you show little to no sympathy for the victims of 9/11, but your heart bleeds for terrorists being waterboarded so that we may get them to reveal future attacks and save American lives. Which we did by the way. You've allowed your hatred for Bush, Republicans and the U.S. military to befuddle your judgment. It must be fun to live in an idealistic utopia where terrorists can be reasoned with and there is absolutely no need for a military or even a police force. Enjoy your freedoms that you were born with, because someone paid for them with blood.
Bush, Cheney, et. al. need to be brought to justice once and for all for their war crimes. This is sickening. It reduces the U.S. to the same level as other fascist societies, in which no Rule of Law applies, and in which the government can perpetrate whatever horrors they wish on another human being. Not to mention their other brilliant successes: a country flooded with illegal immigrants, outsourced American Jobs, failing banks and businesses, the suspension of environmental protection laws, and a crashing economy. Obama needs to appoint a Special Prosecutor. And do it soon.
Where's the proof that it happened "183 times"? On a search of the links it said that there is no evidence except some video's that may have existed at one time but don't now.
Ok, so where's the proof other than an interpretation of reports. Post the memo's and reports please...
And just out (today) from the NY Times "Waterboarding, which was used 266 times on Abu Zubaydah, left, and Khalid Shaikh Mohammed" so if y'all can't get your own figures straight how are you supposed to be taken seriously?
Apparently you hate all Americans too, because you show little to no sympathy for the victims of 9/11, but your heart bleeds for terrorists being waterboarded so that we may get them to reveal future attacks and save American lives. Which we did by the way. You've allowed your hatred for Bush, Republicans and the U.S. military to befuddle your judgment. It must be fun to live in an idealistic utopia where terrorists can be reasoned with and there is absolutely no need for a military or even a police force. Enjoy your freedoms that you were born with, because someone paid for them with blood.
Waterboarding isn't about sympathy for the victims of 9/11.
Waterboarding isn't about being conservative or liberal.
Waterboarding is about using a method of interrogation that has been historically and widely considered torture, and which historically the United States repudiated. Waterboarding is about adopting a mindset that the ends justify the means. So it's okay to torture our enemies, we just won't call it torture. It's okay because---"Look at what they done to us, ma! They deserve it!" It's okay because, even though it's terrible and people are horrified, we saved American lives. We may waste some of our time and resources acting on bad information, because someone being interrogated by this method will say whatever the interrogators want to hear, but it's still okay. It's okay because they are the bad guys and we are the good guys.
You don't have to call it torture if you don't want to. I call it torture because I know I'd last all of 10 seconds if such a thing were being done to me. I call it torture because I've inhaled water, and know that it's not just a mild discomfort, and how quickly that can become panic when you're under water and you can't find your way up to the surface. I call it torture because it can cause damage to the lungs and esophagus, it can cause heart and brain damage. I call it torture because the whole point is to create debilitating fear in the person being questioned, and debilitating fear isn't created by splashing water in someone's face. You can call it whatever you want. It still won't make it okay.
You can point to 9/11 ad nauseum. How many of the people at Gitmo had anything at all to do with 9/11? If we are torturing people as a form of revenge for 9/11, then we've sunk to beyond pathetic levels. Because that's sadism, pure and simple. If we are torturing people to obtain information to prevent 9/11's in the future, then there is some justification there. That's the end justifies the means argument. I disagree with that, because I believe that how we reach an end is as important as reaching that end, and I think the costs, not to our enemies but to ourselves, when we adopt that argument are just too high. There is also the problem with efficacy. At some point, how valuable is the torture? The men we are interrogating are living in limbo. The terrorists they work with have moved on. Plans have changed. Safe houses have changed. Older terrorists have died or gone on to start new terrorist cells, newer terrorists have brought new directions, new goals, new plans, new targets. Is the information we are acquiring outdated and viable? Is it worth our abandoning our morality?
Many people seem to think it's okay because we are the good guys. We're the good guys, trying to stop the bad guys from doing more bad things. So that makes it okay. Only everything about our ideas of right and wrong, about justice and morality, says that when good guys start doing bad things, they stop being the good guys. Now matter how pure your motivations, no matter how benevolent your intentions, when you do bad things, you are no longer the good guy.
So you think fear is what should be used? You are under the very mistaken impression that fear yields power. Fear is what manufactured this disgusting situation and now you're telling us it's the way out!
Nope. I think we should use WHATEVER IT TAKES whether that includes torture or not. What do you think is the way out?
Fear is what drives you to glean information from these people. Perfect vicious circle...that's not going to end anytime soon if people don't get it through their sick twisted heads that fear is what creates the situation in the first place. It's like throwing gasoline on a fire.
What situation is that?
Want to end terrorism? Want to end this crap? Treat the "enemy" as a loved one and don't let anything or anyone talk you out of it. See how far the right approach takes you...if you're man enough.
Please tell me you are being facetious. Yes, I would like to end terrorism, however, I doubt that is going to happen any time soon so until then, I want to end the destruction terrorism yields. In order to do that, I think all resources should be used regardless what they may be.
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