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Newtoli, just to help you out a little. Here is the link to the Fox news story when President Bush was talking about how international cooperation helped to foil the terrorist plot against Los Angeles in 2002.
An article from Congressman Dan Rohrabacher's web site:
CIA Waterboarding Produced Intel That Stopped Attack on Los Angeles
by Terry Jeffrey "That is the ominous statement an uncooperative Khalid Sheikh Mohammed (KSM), mastermind of the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks, told his Central Intelligence Agency interrogators when they initially asked him, after he had been captured, about additional planned al-Qaida attacks on the United States.
In March 2003, KSM became the third and final terrorist ever waterboarded by the CIA. The other two were Abu Zubaydah and Rahim Al-Nashiri.
CIA Acting General Counsel John A. Rizzo letter, as quoted here, was cited in a May 30, 2005, memo to Rizzo from then-Principal Deputy Assistant Attorney General Steven G. Bradbury, also of the Office of Legal Counsel.
On Tuesday, the CIA confirmed to me that it stands by assertions credited to the agency in this 2005 memo that subjecting KSM to "enhanced techniques" of interrogation -- including waterboarding -- caused him to reveal information that allowed the U.S. government to stop a planned 9/11-style attack on Los Angeles. U.S. Congressman Dana Rohrabacher : 46th District Of California So, are you about to call the congressman a liar?
That depends on what the Congressman knew and when.
Now it just may be that Congressman Rohrabacher was merely regurgitating information passed to him and was ignorant of the actual time line. Which goes as follows:
WASHINGTON, Feb. 9 — President Bush offered new information on Thursday about what he said was a foiled plot by Al Qaeda in 2002 to fly a hijacked airplane into the tallest building west of the Mississippi, the U.S. Bank Tower in Los Angeles, as he sought to make the case for his record on national security
Here Bush states that the plot was foiled in 2002.
Yet according to one of the memo's released last week there was this interesting statement followed by a foot note:
Quote:
But the same memorandum reveals in a footnote that Mr. Mohammed, captured on March 1, 2003, was waterboarded 183 times that month. That striking number, which would average out to six waterboardings a day, suggests that interrogators did not try a traditional, rapport-building approach for long before escalating to their most extreme tool ”
So Bush claimed that the Los Angles plot was foiled in 2002 and it is now claimed that this plot was foiled because of the use of water boarding. Yet in the recently released memo it states that he wasn't captured until March of 2003. So how could they waterboard a man they had not even captured yet?
From this we can surmise that either the information is incorrect or someone is lying. So just because Congressman Dana Rohrabacher says it happened that way, doesn't make it so.
No, the CIA said they obtained this information from waterboarding KSM.
Again, how they did obtain information from KSM in 2003 on a plot that was already foiled in 2002?
I saw another source that said Zubaydah outed KSM back in 2002, as the person planing the attacks in LA. That same source says waterboarding of KSM in 2005 gave details of the plan, and other intel.
what we are seeing is leaked information, mixed with misinformation and distorted info. The only way to clear this up is to find the truth, and we do not have the truth now, no matter which web site you may link to, or which potential glory hound you cite as a source.
An article from Congressman Dan Rohrabacher's web site:
CIA Waterboarding Produced Intel That Stopped Attack on Los Angeles
by Terry Jeffrey "That is the ominous statement an uncooperative Khalid Sheikh Mohammed (KSM), mastermind of the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks, told his Central Intelligence Agency interrogators when they initially asked him, after he had been captured, about additional planned al-Qaida attacks on the United States.
In March 2003, KSM became the third and final terrorist ever waterboarded by the CIA. The other two were Abu Zubaydah and Rahim Al-Nashiri.
CIA Acting General Counsel John A. Rizzo letter, as quoted here, was cited in a May 30, 2005, memo to Rizzo from then-Principal Deputy Assistant Attorney General Steven G. Bradbury, also of the Office of Legal Counsel.
On Tuesday, the CIA confirmed to me that it stands by assertions credited to the agency in this 2005 memo that subjecting KSM to "enhanced techniques" of interrogation -- including waterboarding -- caused him to reveal information that allowed the U.S. government to stop a planned 9/11-style attack on Los Angeles. U.S. Congressman Dana Rohrabacher : 46th District Of California
So, are you about to call the congressman a liar?
As if congressmen have not lied, misunderstood, had faulty memories, or been misinformed in the past.
Someone is lying, or was misinformed, or misunderstood, because the time lines do not match, which you continue to point out.
Here is the declassified memo from the Justice Department in pdf scan:
http://luxmedia.vo.llnwd.net/o10/clients/aclu/olc_05302005_bradbury.pdf (broken link)
It's on page 10.
Quote:
With these caveats, we tum to specific examples that you have provided to us. You have
informed us that the interrogation ofKSM.....-,Ql1ce enhanced techniques were employed-led to
the discovery ofaKSM piot, the "Second Wave," "to use East Asian operatives fo crash Ii
hijacked airliner into" a building in Los Angeles.
Newtoli, just to help you out a little. Here is the link to the Fox news story when President Bush was talking about how international cooperation helped to foil the terrorist plot against Los Angeles in 2002.
Presidents are not above using misdirection and tailoring the facts so as to not leak out crucial information, especially during a war. for all we know, they got the info about the LA attacks from a covert agent, and changed the names, dates etc... as a security concern. the only truth will be in those memos that 0bama is not releasing ATM.
I have seen conflicting information as to who gave up what information, so I do not know the truth. I just want the truth, not partisan, political revenge against the evil Boooosh, Chainnnnnnnyyyy.
Sorry if after hearing lies and exaggerations from politicians that I and skeptic of anything they say, such as
"Those Marines killed innocent civilians in cold blood, because they could not handle the pressure"
"The war is lost"
"The surge has failed"
"I never had sexual relations with that woman...."
Presidents are not above using misdirection and tailoring the facts so as to not leak out crucial information, especially during a war. for all we know, they got the info about the LA attacks from a covert agent, and changed the names, dates etc... as a security concern. the only truth will be in those memos that 0bama is not releasing ATM.
I have seen conflicting information as to who gave up what information, so I do not know the truth. I just want the truth, not partisan, political revenge against the evil Boooosh, Chainnnnnnnyyyy.
Sorry if after hearing lies and exaggerations from politicians that I and skeptic of anything they say, such as
"Those Marines killed innocent civilians in cold blood, because they could not handle the pressure"
"The war is lost"
"The surge has failed"
"I never had sexual relations with that woman...."
The actual memo WAS released. I linked it. It says they got that info from waterboarding in 2003.
Presidents are not above using misdirection and tailoring the facts so as to not leak out crucial information, especially during a war. for all we know, they got the info about the LA attacks from a covert agent, and changed the names, dates etc... as a security concern. the only truth will be in those memos that 0bama is not releasing ATM.
I have seen conflicting information as to who gave up what information, so I do not know the truth. I just want the truth, not partisan, political revenge against the evil Boooosh, Chainnnnnnnyyyy.
Sorry if after hearing lies and exaggerations from politicians that I and skeptic of anything they say, such as
"Those Marines killed innocent civilians in cold blood, because they could not handle the pressure"
"The war is lost"
"The surge has failed"
"I never had sexual relations with that woman...."
Misdirection and tailoring the facts?
Bush states straightforwardly that the plot to attack Los Angeles was foiled early in 2002.
In March 2003 KSM is captured. He is waterboarded repeatedly through the month. Waterboarding, per the DOJ and CIA guidelines, is to be done only in the event an attack is imminent. The CIA states straightforwardly that the waterboarding yielded valuable information about the Los Angeles attack. An attack that had been foiled a year earlier per President Bush and was therefore not imminent.
You can only conclude that the CIA was not following its or DOJ guidelines when it conducted the waterboarding of KSM. Those guidelines were designed to keep waterboarding within a legal framework. Going beyond the guidelines illustrates that the interrogators went beyond the legal framework, and that their conduct was illegal.
We weren't fighting uniformed enemies in the Phillipines or Vietnam, but we still prosecuted waterboarders. Nice try.
The Geneva Convention is a red herring. The UN Convention Against Torture is not the Geneva Convention. Nor do our domestic laws against torture have anything to do with the Geneva Convention.
If the United States is filled with people who justify torturing prisoners, yes, I hate the United States, we are a terrorist nation and we deserve whatever anyone can dish out. Unfortunately, it's not only psychotic freaks like you who die when we're attacked.
Did they kill Amercan civilians?
The Geneva Convention appies to uniformed soldures, not terrorists.
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