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The actual memo WAS released. I linked it. It says they got that info from waterboarding in 2003.
Now what?
If the memo you cite is the real thing, and we knew about the plot, and prevented it, before the waterboarding, then who did we learn about it from? Its in those top secret documents, which we will probably never see.
If the memo you cite is the real thing, and we knew about the plot, and prevented it, before the waterboarding, then who did we learn about it from? Its in those top secret documents, which we will probably never see.
Actually, since Bush cites a Southeast Asian country's capture of a terrorist, and international cooperation, it may be in a Southeast Asian country's documents and not in any American top secret documents.
I do not have to "try again" a silly UN document does not override the US Constitution nor does it dictate the national security policy of this country.
Yes it does. Sorry, treaties are legally binding. Article VI of the Constitution states:
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This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land; and the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby...
They are law, you can bemoan and bewail a particular treaty or all treaties, but they are still binding and there isn't anything you can do about it.
Prosecuted military personnel for using it on captured enemy soldiers. Zubaydah and his lik are not soldiers.
Do you EVER find out what you are talking about before you post? In the Phillipines we waterboarded insurgents. In Vietnam we waterboarded insurgents. The Japanese officer in '47 was prosecuted for waterboarding a civilian. In all cases they were prosecuted and they were convicted.
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According to you, I am not even entitled to my own opinions.
You're entitled to your own opinions, but not your own facts. Whether something is torture is a matter of opinion, whether it is illegal is a matter of fact.
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Waterboarding was declared NOT torture and made legal for use on terrorists under president Bush, and I agree with him.
President Bush, not King George. Neither the executive nor the legislature can legally break treaty obligations. And the executive cannot choose to ignore domestic laws. Your civics needs some brushing up. Start by glancing at the Constitution.
The moment they would meet me and my wife, they would be infuriated that we are not Muslims, and how dare my wife be out in public w/o her full length potato sack and veil.
Are you as ignorant about the world as you sound, or is that even humanly possible?
Yes it does. Sorry, treaties are legally binding. Article VI of the Constitution states:
They are law, you can bemoan and bewail a particular treaty or all treaties, but they are still binding and there isn't anything you can do about it.
Lol, yea, UN treaties are binding on the US. Every other country that signed on to a particular treaty and violated it on a daily basis since it's ratification , well, thats OK, so long as the US abides by it to the letter. The UN is a useless body. We basically support it's existence, the latter which serves only as a soap box for the rest of the world to tell us what they think we should do to support their interests. We should have dropped out of the UN a long time ago and kicked them out of our country. Let China have the headquarters, or maybe Russia. Then they can support it with their recources. Maybe all the treaty's they signed on to and used for toilet paper can be monitored better from Moscow or Bejing by all those worthless 'diplomats'. I fail to see why we should care a whit about the UN....nobody else does.
The Geneva Convention appies to uniformed soldures, not terrorists.
Moderator cut: rude The Geneva Convention is NOT the only controlling law or treaty on earth.
The people who we waterboarded in the Phillipines and Vietnam were NOT uniformed enemy soldiers and they did NOT receive the protection of the Geneva Convention but torturing them WAS a crime nevertheless and people DID either go to prison or were drummed out of the military.
Last edited by katzenfreund; 04-24-2009 at 10:21 PM..
Lol, yea, UN treaties are binding on the US. Every other country that signed on to a particular treaty and violated it on a daily basis since it's ratification
That's the moral argument of an average 10-year-old who doesn't understand why he's in trouble.
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well, thats OK, so long as the US abides by it to the letter
It's supreme law of the land according to the Constitution. You can obey the law or flout the law. If you flout the law, don't surprised if you spend a few years in the steel hotel. We routinely lock people up for years for doing a lot less than torturing someone 6 times a day for a month.
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The UN is a useless body. We basically support it's existence, the latter which serves only as a soap box for the rest of the world to tell us what they think we should do to support their interests. We should have dropped out of the UN a long time ago and kicked them out of our country.
Maybe we should've. Maybe we still should. Make the case for it if you like. But not here. The law is the law.
That's the moral argument of an average 10-year-old who doesn't understand why he's in trouble.
It's supreme law of the land according to the Constitution. You can obey the law or flout the law. If you flout the law, don't surprised if you spend a few years in the steel hotel. We routinely lock people up for years for doing a lot less than torturing someone 6 times a day for a month.
Maybe we should've. Maybe we still should. Make the case for it if you like. But not here. The law is the law.
We, this 'average ten year old' () has seen enough of what to many other countries that belong to the UN think of this 'law' you cite with such zeal to care what you, personally, think of my position. I don't here you beating the drum for any of these law breakers (exept American ones) to be spending time in the 'steel hotel' either. Laws don't win wars. I'm no fan of torturing intell out of enemy soldiers, but our enemies do not share those reservations. These qualms about waterboaring, sleep deprivation etc that are being hammered on so hard are only serving to show weakness in the eyes of a brutal and vicious enemy that looks upon beheading and dismemberment as 'civilized' behavior. We do not have to use like methods in our treatment of prisoners, but what we are doing is way over the top. That would be worrying about their 'civil rights', giving them 'due process' (since when do courts fight wars?) bemoaning the fact that we have destroyed their standard of living or knocked around some prisoners. Waterboarding is a kiddy game to these people. OK, so we don't use such methods anymore. Fine, whatever. But I fail to see why we should grant these enemy fighters (read terrorists) 'rights' through our legal system. Good greif! We have enough leeches in our system dealing with our criminals. Sueing for whether or not they get crunchy or creamy peanut butter at chow call. This is going to open a whole can of grief.
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Easy to talk when it ain't you with your head on the wrong end of a sword...
. Then they can support it with their recources. Maybe all the treaty's they signed on to and used for toilet paper can be monitored better from Moscow or Bejing by all those worthless 'diplomats'. I fail to see why we should care a whit about the UN....nobody else does.
