Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 04-23-2009, 07:45 AM
 
Location: Raleigh, NC
9,059 posts, read 12,970,206 times
Reputation: 1401

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mooseketeer View Post
Europe has plenty of immigrants ( legal and illegal , not a day go by without a hysterical headline in the papers) and Western Europeans hardly have austere lifestyles ( having lived in quite a few European countries over the past few decades I know) . Houses are smaller because land is scarcer, Air Conditioning is not prevalent because we don't get quite the extremes of temperatures and it is also seen as incredibly wasteful and un-environmentally friendly. And our heating is fine thank you very much.
We don't sit there in Winter shivering with 10 layers of clothing on though we value efficiency where possible . Wastages of energy are not considered something to be proud about. Our cars and houses have been far more efficient for years for example.

Simply because our lifestyle is different does not mean we are poorer. I would say that a bigger proportion of Western Europeans enjoy a good middle class lifestyle as compared to Americans. House sizes and A/C have little to do with it. Western Europe is still incredibly consumerism orientated though maybe as ChielGirl mentions our saving grace is a certain distrust towards credit.

People tend to spend more time on holidays ( paid holidays are the norm here a minimum of 4 weeks , far more in many countries) for example and to me that puts Europe way ahead in terms of lifestyle. We have the same gadgets as Americans, computers, MP3, Broadband, DVD players, HD /Flat screen TVs, ect.... Our cars are smaller because most of us don't see the need to have huge gas guzzlers when a medium size vehicle is perfectly good.

Houses prices are more expensive because of land scarcity ( especially in the UK) but on the other hand we get Universal Healthcare( cheaper than the US system) , and a generous social contract to which all are entitled.

We have poor people like every country but from my experience of living in the US and Europe, the proportion is much lower and the gap between poor and rich not so gigantic. Being poor is not seen as a crime or a failure.
Money is not everything after all.

Eastern Europe is in some parts very poor indeed but other places like Estonia or the Czech Republic have blossomed into incredibly modern and Westernised countries.

I have always found it odd that someone would define austerity as having a smaller house. I don't need a big house, in fact I would not want one.
Neither do I want a huge car.

What I want is time to spend with my loved ones, enjoying their company, and enough money to travel , go out to dinner, the theatre, the Opera, concerts, Art galleries etc... and I have that.

My house is pretty small but I love it, I don't feel deprived in any way. We take 2 or 3 foreign holidays a year and some UK breaks too( on a very normal salary - I don't work so only one pay-packet) . We go out a lot, and enjoy a good level of comfort and modern amenities. A/C would make no sense to me apaprt from the one week a year when it is really hot. And in hotter parts of the continent like Southern Europe , people have just adapted their lifestyles to the heat and their houses are naturally ventilated for example.

All of Europe is Capitalist and most countries are led by right wing governments .

I have often considered moving to the US for a few years ( I lived there for 3 years) but the lack of universal healthcare, paid holidays etc... is just too off putting.

I know that should anything ever happen to us in the US we would just not have the social net we enjoy here.

I am more than happy paying higher taxes to know that everyone is covered. It is a price well worth paying .
Oh please. England is the bastard child of Europe. Heavily rooted in debt and it's PM going off on retard Keynesian economics and . The pound is falling against the Euro, North Sea oil exports are drying up, and the stimulus plans are financed with deficit spending just like the US and unlike most of mainland Europe.

England will adopt the Euro very soon. Count on it.


YouTube - Jim Rogers UK will go bankrupt pt 1/2

If the legendary Jim Rogers isn't putting a penny into the UK, I sure as h*ll aren't.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 04-23-2009, 07:55 AM
 
Location: Londonderry, NH
41,479 posts, read 59,778,277 times
Reputation: 24863
Instead of moving to Europe I prefer to work at moving the European system here. I like the idea of universal health care, four week vacations, excellent public transit systems and peaceful and clean environment. I think a lot of Americans would like the same amenities.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-23-2009, 07:58 AM
 
Location: North Cackelacky....in the hills.
19,567 posts, read 21,868,498 times
Reputation: 2519
Who says Europe 'does okay' with liberalism?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-23-2009, 08:25 AM
 
Location: Blankity-blank!
11,446 posts, read 16,184,746 times
Reputation: 6958
Quote:
Originally Posted by oz in SC View Post
Who says Europe 'does okay' with liberalism?
You're right. Buying and owning a gun is not as easy in Europe. Also, religion is not as involved in politics as in America. Homophobia isn't as widespread.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-23-2009, 08:28 AM
 
Location: North Cackelacky....in the hills.
19,567 posts, read 21,868,498 times
Reputation: 2519
Don't forget about the lack of freedom of speech,several countries there ban certain ideas being discussed or even spoken about....
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-23-2009, 08:29 AM
 
Location: Earth
24,620 posts, read 28,279,876 times
Reputation: 11416
Quote:
Originally Posted by camping! View Post
Yes, I've heard the same thing. I also understand that in Europe (particularily in Italy) it is rare to buy a house on credit - a mortgage - people save until they can buy one outright. Very, very different then in the US.
People do buy houses on credit, but there are stipulations. You have to have a great portion saved, the government will help out a little, and you can have a 20-30 year mortgage. Again, this is relatively new.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-23-2009, 08:31 AM
 
Location: North Cackelacky....in the hills.
19,567 posts, read 21,868,498 times
Reputation: 2519
Several European nations actually have 50 year mortgages.....so people can afford to buy a place.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-23-2009, 08:40 AM
 
13,648 posts, read 20,775,774 times
Reputation: 7650
Quote:
Originally Posted by Visvaldis View Post
You're right. Buying and owning a gun is not as easy in Europe. Also, religion is not as involved in politics as in America. Homophobia isn't as widespread.
Regarding guns, it depends. Finland and Switzerland have lots of guns. No shortage in the Balkans either.

True about religion, although the irony is that the US is more secular on paper.

Homophobia still runs rampant in large swaths of Europe, but yes has diminished in others.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-23-2009, 08:43 AM
 
Location: wrong planet
5,168 posts, read 11,438,003 times
Reputation: 4379
It all depends where you live. A childhood friend of mine purchased a house, about 1100 square foot, with a small yard, for about 50.000 Euros. She pays a whopping 90 Euros in property tax a year and her house has solid 2 foot walls, which makes it nice and cool in the summer and easier to heat in the winter. She lives in a town of about 20.000 and is about 1 hour from a major city, 10 minutes from a town of 50.000, with good public transportation... so she is contemplating getting rid of her car. She can own this house by working her job for 30 hours a week. Meanwhile she gets 6 weeks paid vacation and good healthcare.
__________________
The price of anything is the amount of life you exchange for it. ~Henry David Thoreau


forum rules, please read them
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-23-2009, 08:45 AM
 
13,648 posts, read 20,775,774 times
Reputation: 7650
Quote:
Originally Posted by katzenfreund View Post
It all depends where you live. A childhood friend of mine purchased a house, about 1100 square foot, with a small yard, for about 50.000 Euros. She pays a whopping 90 Euros in property tax a year and her house has solid 2 foot walls, which makes it nice and cool in the summer and easier to heat in the winter. She lives in a town of about 20.000 and is about 1 hour from a major city, 10 minutes from a town of 50.000, with good public transportation... so she is contemplating getting rid of her car. She can own this house by working her job for 30 hours a week. Meanwhile she gets 6 weeks paid vacation and good healthcare.

Does she need a husband?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top