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Are you a lawyer or something? Why should anyone listen to your senseless rhetoric? Even if you were, your positions are so backwards, you'd never get hired by anyone with a brain....Please visit another thread....Only intelligent posters are welcome here..... and by the way I shoot back and straight...
You shoot back and obviously missed. You posting does nothing at all to claim that its illegal.
Even John McCain claims its torture and SHOULD be outlawed, meaning its not outlawed.
I note how they arent talking about the true issue, they are only talking about those that should be prosecuted. Quit a bit difference in talking about prosecuting individuals for taking part in a legal procedure and ignoring the fact that its legal..
Just because you want it to be illegal, and Congress pretends they want it to be illegal, (remember, they could make it illegal within hours), doesnt make it so..
Section 2340A provides in full:
(a) Offense.—Whoever outside the United States commits or attempts to commit torture shall
be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 20 years, or both, and if death results to any
person from conduct prohibited by this subsection, shall be punished by death or imprisoned for
any term of years or for life.
(b) Jurisdiction.—There is jurisdiction over the activity prohibited in subsection (a) if—
(1) the alleged offender is a national of the United States; or
(2) the alleged offender is present in the United States, irrespective of the nationality of
the victim or alleged offender.
(c) Conspiracy.—A person who conspires to commit an offense under this section shall be
subject to the same penalties (other than the penalty of death) as the penalties prescribed for the
offense, the commission of which was the object of the conspiracy.
18 U.S.C. § 2340A (2000).
Section 2340 provides in full:
As used in this chapter—
(1) "torture" means an act committed by a person acting under color of law specifically intended to inflict severe physical or mental pain or suffering (other than pain or suffering incidental to lawful sanctions) upon another person within his custody or physical control;
(2) "severe mental pain or suffering" means the prolonged mental harm caused by or resulting
from—
(A) the intentional infliction or threatened infliction of severe physical pain or suffering;
(B) the administration or application, or threatened administration or application, of
mind-altering substances or other procedures calculated to disrupt profoundly the senses or
the personality;
(C) the threat of imminent death; or
(D) the threat that another person will imminently be subjected to death, severe physical
pain or suffering, or the administration or application of mind-altering substances or other
procedures calculated to disrupt profoundly the senses or personality; and
(3) "United States" means the several States of the United States, die District of Columbia,
and the commonwealths, territories, and possessions of the United States
The problem with your argument is that murder is illegal, and Bush never approved of murder, he approved of waterboarding which has been deemed "not torture". Congress could TODAY deem it an illegal procedure but rather than do so, they stand up and grandstand about how wrong it is while keeping it a legal procedure.
I disagree waterboarding is not torture because Mr Bush deemed it not torture. Congress doesn't have to make it illegal. It is illegal vis vi the Geneva Conventions which were ratified by the US Senate, illegal by the Uniform Military Code, by US Supreme Court ruling based on Constitutional Law and Section 2340 of the US Criminal Code. Mr Bush failed to uphold his Oath of Office when he deemed an illegal act lawfull. I think Congress should still vote Articles of Impeachment against Mr Bush because he should be barred from future positions of trust in the US government and should forfit the large government funding for his office and pension.
Last edited by mwruckman; 04-24-2009 at 09:12 AM..
Reason: Update due to new post
Pres. Obama should prosecute the *&$*#$^ out of that clown Cheney and his puppet Bush...Why not? They signed off on torture & broke the law....No one is above the law, right?! For those suggesting that the POTUS should leave this matter in the past, let me remind you all of the vitriol used against former Pres. Clinton during their unsuccessful attempt to impeach him. The GOP were relentless pit bulls intent on retribution and revenge. I say Obama show no mercy and investigate the crimes committed by him and his henchmen and punish em to the fullest extent of the law.....
Shouldnt we also then charge every single president that allowed our own military to be waterboarded?
Then would include Obama and Clinton and many many others. So you are only worried about waterboarding terrorist but our own military is fine. Oh heck
Bush deserves a metal for saving all the loser demo's butts for eight years... He's a great man..
Bring back the torture, we want to be safe first. We have a scared little wimp for a president now....
This is a classic example of why the GOP will become extinct. They think the ticket to future success is to justify what their leaders have done. Honestly, if the GOP denounced torture, illegal surveillance of citizens, the Iraq war, etc...., they would have a better chance of surviving ..
I know you and others are praying that Bush and Cheney are not prosecuted.....keeping laughing....won't be funny if they are & then we'll see who laughs last....
I disagree waterboarding is not torture because Mr Bush deemed it not torture. Congress doesn't have to make it illegal. It is illegal vis vi the Geneva Conventions which were ratified by the US Senate, illegal by the Uniform Military Code, by US Supreme Court ruling based on Constitutional Law and Section 2340 of the US Criminal Code. Mr Bush failed to uphold his Oath of Office when he deemed an illegal act lawfull. I think Congress should still vote Articles of Impeachment against Mr Bush because he should be barred from future positions of trust in the US government and should forfit the large government funding for his office and pension.
Geneva Convention deals with war issues, which we are not at war.
US Criminal Code deals with US Citizens, they are not US Citizens.
Constitutional Law deals also with US Citizens, again, they are not citizens
"We have to be safe first" Huh? You would sacrifice law and decency to be "safe"? You would dishoner your self and the rest of us to be "safe". You would put any of our soldiers captured by an enemy at the risk of torture because you would be "safe".
You statement is the very definition of cowardice. I, for one, as a Vietnam Veteran, regret I risked my life so our Nation could produce people like you.
Fear only drags you into the same pit as your enemies. Take the higher road. Take the road that our forefathers took who established the principles that our country was based on.
Quote:
the British freely brutalized and killed American prisoners of war, in conditions considered scandalous even in that day. In contrast, Washington ordered American troops to take a higher road in keeping with the ideals of the new republic. He insisted that enemy captives must be given food and medical attention and be housed in conditions that were no worse than those of the American soldiers. In directives still eloquent today, he ordered his troops to treat British war prisoners “with humanity, and let them have no reason to complain of us copying the brutal manner of the British Army … While we are contending for our own liberty we should be very cautious of violating the rights of conscience in others, ever considering that God alone is the judge of the hearts of men, and to Him only in this case, are they answerable.”
Washington’s orders, which became the backbone of American military doctrine until 2001,
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and by the way I shoot back and straight...
