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Old 11-10-2009, 06:11 AM
 
Location: Tampa Florida
22,229 posts, read 17,858,215 times
Reputation: 4585

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Can we explore areas where all of us agree? I, for one, think there nearly unanimous agreement on Congress. Except for the extremes on either side, there seems to be a common feeling of disgust of how were are being represented. Or perhaps, it is the way we are NOT being represented. This "contempt" of Congress, is it well founded? Is it true? Any thoughts? Any solutions? Or is everything just hunky dory?
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Old 11-10-2009, 06:16 AM
 
Location: Sango, TN
24,868 posts, read 24,392,645 times
Reputation: 8672
Ban Lobbyists from congressional halls. Also, if anyone is caught taking money from special interest groups, lobbyists, or anything of the same ilk should immediately be expelled from the Congressional roles.
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Old 11-10-2009, 06:45 AM
 
Location: The ends DO NOT justify the means!!!
4,783 posts, read 3,742,907 times
Reputation: 1336
I doubt that there is really any agreement between the extremes of collectivists and libertarians. As the extremes between slavery and freedom are diametrically opposed. All of those lost along the sliding scale between the two merely pick and choose their positions soley on their particular special interests.

That being said, Congress in general does have a pathetically low approval rate. I believe that no matter where one stands on the scale of freedom it is "sensed" that members of Congress do not represent them. This "sense" is why the people harbor such feeling of disgust with their "representatives".

Many believe that these members are wrongly swayed by "outsiders" and not listening to them. Depending on whom you ask, left or right, they will describe the supposed "evil" players that disagree with them. The left will say that it is big business or something to that effect. The right will say that it is big government. However, big business and big government play for the same team. They are coconspirators, the government/business collusion, that only serve their own personal interest which has nothing at all to do with "The People".

It should be obvious, sadly it is not for many, that either institution naturally only seeks to gain more power and wealth at every opportunity. There is only one real source of this power and wealth. It is, or rather was, all in the hands of the people. We gave government and business the power to rule over and rob us. Now we complain when they do what is natural for them to do in their own interest. Silly right?

The collectivists, libertarians, and everyone lost in between do have a common enemy though. There is a group who stand in the way of any ideological philosophy. This group has a private monopoly over our currency and therefore have a monopoly over our entire nation. They have the "legal" ability to use us as slaves to perpetual "debt" that CANNOT ever be repayed. (It is impossible to do so at this point.) They will forever be able, as we are mere eternal debtors, to dictate everything that occurs in this nation. They are the Morgan Reserve. We are the human capital that our government and business will forever use to pay "interest" to the Morgans, Loebs, and Rothschilds. If anyone looks closely at the ponzi scheme of our privately owned fiat currency system it is all quite obvious. It is IMPOSSIBLE to pay off a loan with INTEREST when there is not enough currency in existence to do so. We, the people, the government, the businesses, are mere tools and slaves of the Morgan Reserve.

The Federal Reserve is the only common enemy of every human residing in America. The rest of the "civilized" world have their own "Morgans" to worry about as well. All of us are fighting over the scraps that the Plantation owners have thrown to the slaves. We, all of us, first have to free ourselves from the Counterfeiting Cartel before any of our arguments about collectivism or libertarianism really have any importance. Until we oust the private Central Bank who own us and our government, we have no real ability to redesign a society that is not really ours anyway. If we take ownership of our country back from the Rothschilds, Loebs, and Morgans THEN we can have meaningful discussion of what to do with our country. Otherwise, we are just fighting over chicken bones thrown in the dirt by our masters.
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Old 11-10-2009, 06:47 AM
 
Location: New Mexico
8,396 posts, read 9,443,995 times
Reputation: 4070
Congress (much of it, anyway) has become an extremely effective advocate for corporate interests.

Public interests? Not so much.
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Old 11-10-2009, 06:57 AM
 
56 posts, read 73,845 times
Reputation: 36
Yeah, one thing so many people fail to realize is that it is our Congress who are responsible for so much.
Not our Presidents.

Obama may be President but Nancy Pelosi and her merry band of morons are really what's killing this country.

I for one feel that the Tea Party movement will expand and if Congress continues on supporting the notion of a socialistic country the people will revolt. That's what brought speculation and killed the health care bill HR3200 in the first place.

That's what we need. A good revolution

Even if the Dems loose in 2012 and I believe they should and will, not much will change. The GOP boys are no better and as of today there is little chance for a third party.

Americans need to understand how politics work and for the most part they don't.

It is indeed our Congress that needs the majority of media spotlight.
It is Congress that needs criticism.

Not just our Presidents.
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Old 11-10-2009, 07:08 AM
 
Location: Tampa Florida
22,229 posts, read 17,858,215 times
Reputation: 4585
Quote:
Originally Posted by irspow View Post
I doubt that there is really any agreement between the extremes of collectivists and libertarians. As the extremes between slavery and freedom are diametrically opposed. All of those lost along the sliding scale between the two merely pick and choose their positions soley on their particular special interests.

That being said, Congress in general does have a pathetically low approval rate. I believe that no matter where one stands on the scale of freedom it is "sensed" that members of Congress do not represent them. This "sense" is why the people harbor such feeling of disgust with their "representatives".

Many believe that these members are wrongly swayed by "outsiders" and not listening to them. Depending on whom you ask, left or right, they will describe the supposed "evil" players that disagree with them. The left will say that it is big business or something to that effect. The right will say that it is big government. However, big business and big government play for the same team. They are coconspirators, the government/business collusion, that only serve their own personal interest which has nothing at all to do with "The People".

It should be obvious, sadly it is not for many, that either institution naturally only seeks to gain more power and wealth at every opportunity. There is only one real source of this power and wealth. It is, or rather was, all in the hands of the people. We gave government and business the power to rule over and rob us. Now we complain when they do what is natural for them to do in their own interest. Silly right?

The collectivists, libertarians, and everyone lost in between do have a common enemy though. There is a group who stand in the way of any ideological philosophy. This group has a private monopoly over our currency and therefore have a monopoly over our entire nation. They have the "legal" ability to use us as slaves to perpetual "debt" that CANNOT ever be repayed. (It is impossible to do so at this point.) They will forever be able, as we are mere eternal debtors, to dictate everything that occurs in this nation. They are the Morgan Reserve. We are the human capital that our government and business will forever use to pay "interest" to the Morgans, Loebs, and Rothschilds. If anyone looks closely at the ponzi scheme of our privately owned fiat currency system it is all quite obvious. It is IMPOSSIBLE to pay off a loan with INTEREST when there is not enough currency in existence to do so. We, the people, the government, the businesses, are mere tools and slaves of the Morgan Reserve.

The Federal Reserve is the only common enemy of every human residing in America. The rest of the "civilized" world have their own "Morgans" to worry about as well. All of us are fighting over the scraps that the Plantation owners have thrown to the slaves. We, all of us, first have to free ourselves from the Counterfeiting Cartel before any of our arguments about collectivism or libertarianism really have any importance. Until we oust the private Central Bank who own us and our government, we have no real ability to redesign a society that is not really ours anyway. If we take ownership of our country back from the Rothschilds, Loebs, and Morgans THEN we can have meaningful discussion of what to do with our country. Otherwise, we are just fighting over chicken bones thrown in the dirt by our masters.
Wow! Quite eloquent, albeit depressing. Any ideas on how a "take back" could be accomplished?
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Old 11-10-2009, 08:03 AM
 
395 posts, read 510,880 times
Reputation: 87
I think we all agree that rape is wrong and that it should be illegal.
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Old 11-10-2009, 08:24 AM
 
82 posts, read 189,616 times
Reputation: 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by florida.bob View Post
Wow! Quite eloquent, albeit depressing. Any ideas on how a "take back" could be accomplished?
Very well said. People need to educate themselves. This goes far beyond Dems and Republicans.
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Old 11-10-2009, 08:57 AM
 
Location: The ends DO NOT justify the means!!!
4,783 posts, read 3,742,907 times
Reputation: 1336
Quote:
Originally Posted by florida.bob View Post
Wow! Quite eloquent, albeit depressing. Any ideas on how a "take back" could be accomplished?
"None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free."

Sadly, only a vast uprising could have any hope of toppling the Banking Cartel. This most likely will not happen primarily because very few Amercians even know what money is much less how those who have a complete monopoly over it use it to control all of us.

Learning about currency throughout history, the history of banking, fractional reserve banking, fiat forms of currency, usury, and Central Banks is the only thing that could really bring the extreme and just anger to bear upon our Overlords.

Even if the people understood their slavery to the Morgans, I still have doubts as to their willingness to destroy the Plantation. They are seemingly quite content in the "security" that slavery presents to them. How they could survive without perpetual debt would be a mystery to them. In our collective nation we suffer from a type of mental disorder as we each mimic the behavior of our oppressors. We after all, commit the same crimes against each other that the Morgans commit against us. We all participate in the sinister ponzi scheme for our own personal benefit.

So collectively, I don't really see The People ever rising up against the Slavemasters. The best that any individual who understands their enslavement can do is resist the best that they can.

Avoid debt and usury at every turn. "Interest" you pay is wealth you throw away. Buy what you can pay for and "save" for what you cannot.

Do NOT save fiat currency! "Saving", in a bank, is giving money to investors who will "pay" you less than that loan's actual value. Fiat currency loses value continually through both legalized counterfeiting and the inflation it causes elsewhere. "Sitting fiat money is disappearing money." Buy valuable and durable commodities with any excess money that you have. Or maybe even "invest" in the ventures of your family or friends. Do NOT invest in those who will rob you with your own money.

If you "must" borrow money, amass the value from borrowing from friends, family, and others who will not demand unreasonable returns. Not only will the "interest" be far, far, less, but the "interest" will benefit your friends and family rather than a shylock who cares nothing for you whatsoever.

Setting up "banks" among your friends and family can provide "loans" that are mutually beneficial to all involved without giving away money to outsiders. In my own experience, "interest" is not usually even needed. If all members really care about one another everyone benefits regardless of whether "interest" is used or not. If no interest is charged, the loaner(s) are happy to see that they have served or helped the debtor. If interest is charged, the debtor is happy to have given reward to someone that they know. It is a win-win situation. And there is no "outside" thief in the arrangement benefiting.

As to the "Big Guys", the master Bank of American Slavery, the "Federal Reserve". Well, as long as they have a monopoly there is little that the individual can do to extricate himself from the Plantation. As mentioned earlier, use their "paper money" as little as possible. Barter when possible, it keeps both the Godvernment and the Rothschilds out of your pocket in that particular transaction. Only on the "black" market and through bartering can any American see any of the real benefits of a "free" market system. Seek out those who provide products and services that need your products and services. Mutual voluntary trades at the individual level without using fiat currency is the most efficient and fair of all commerce. "Traditional" commerce in America simply allows the government and Cental Bank to take an unjust cut from both parties at the individual level.

Finally, contact as many representatives in government as you can and urge them to return to Constitutional currency. Obviously, they gain their power from the Central Bank and will not listen, but there is no harm in pointing out the evils of a private monopoly. Perhaps someday, some representative, will find the courage to stand up for freedom even if it is not in their personal interest to do so. A few "kooks" here and there in Washington like Ron Paul do exist who work tirelessly to point out the evils of the Federal Reserve. If individuals continually clamor, even a minority, there is a possibility that "our" representatives will entertain the idea of freedom.

I saw a great simple illustration of the evil of a private central bank a little while ago. No economic study is necessary to follow. So I will share it for the sake of those who have no desire to learn what the Morgan Reserve is and yet fail to understand the hatred of the institution. Perhaps too simplistic, but easily understandable.

Assume the geniuses decide that we "need" 100 dollars in our economy.
The "Federal" Reserve is a private bank.
"We", the government, take a "loan" of 100 dollars.
"We" now have a "debt" of 102 dollars. (Assume a paltry 2% interest rate)
"We" pay the bank back 100 dollars and are now 2 dollars in debt.
So now we take a 102 dollar loan so that we have 100 dollars in our economy. (Remember we had to pay them the 2 dollars in interest)
So now we owe them 14.40 dollars. (but we still only have 100 dollars!)
We give them the 10 dollars that we have
So we take out a 104.04 loan. (but we still only have 100 dollars after the interest is collected!)
So now we owe the Morgans 106.12 but we only have 100 dollars.

This ponzi scheme will run until our 100 dollars cannot cover the interest and then it is game over. It is IMPOSSIBLE to pay off the debtors! The system is designed so that the money to pay the interest does not exist! It is designed as a perpetual slave trade using humans as collateral. All real "profits" go to those who own the "Federal" Reserve. Everyone else just goes deeper and deeper into debt by design.

The "little" banks basically have their own similar schemes not by direct counterfeiting but through fractional reserve and usury. "Our" government simply goes along because they get to play with all of the "new" money for their own interests while robbing us all. Play the game only when you absolutely have to.
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Old 11-10-2009, 09:05 AM
 
Location: Oklahoma City
757 posts, read 803,070 times
Reputation: 238
Quote:
Originally Posted by florida.bob View Post
Can we explore areas where all of us agree? I, for one, think there nearly unanimous agreement on Congress. Except for the extremes on either side, there seems to be a common feeling of disgust of how were are being represented. Or perhaps, it is the way we are NOT being represented. This "contempt" of Congress, is it well founded? Is it true? Any thoughts? Any solutions? Or is everything just hunky dory?
Congress consistently has low approvals regardless of who is in control. Yet oddly enough most Americans are happy with their Representative or Senator. They are usually re-elected. So while there is a general disgust with Congress, it seems detached from most people's idea of their own representation.

Source:

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epo...roval-903.html
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