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Location: Moose Jaw, in between the Moose's butt and nose.
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Even though I give him an ok grade so far, b- maybe, this is one of a few things that is keeping me from giving him an A.
He seems to be in no hurry to get rid of, or even agrees, that the Blackwaters of the country will still be used in combat.
When Bush started this, I was just sickened by it. I will admit I don't know if he actually was one prez who stated using private companies like this, but I'm confident enough to say that he's the first one who used it on steroids. I don't see the need for them. We could change a few rules in enlisting in the armed forces, reasonably if this is a numbers argument. However, even worse, Blackwater pays folks at least twice as much, or even more, than regular military doing the same job.
Blackwater was owned by folks who are big time contributors to the GOP and Haliburtion (who's involved with them, even though I don't think they are actually fighting) is as well. This is why Obama, is still more of a corporatist than a socialist (sorry right wing nutjobs). I hope there will be enough pressure on him to phase out companies like Blackwater, making up for that, if needed, by loosening requirements to join the armed forces (if it is a numbers issue) and/or, making pay in line with each other, private/public.
The privatization of the military is a dream of the ultra right wing. Obama knows this, but yet, does not seem like he wants to do anything about it. It doesn't seem like he will increase private forces, but looks like he will keep the status quo.
I'd love to hear from those that "support the troops" (often right wingers who are pro private military), why in their opinion, this is a good thing?
Your views are tainted by only the bad things you've heard on TV about Blackwater. Sure, there were a few bad situations, but the role of private security contractors in Iraq was much more than what you are familiar with, it seems.
Of the situations I witnessed Blackwater being involved in, I was quite impressed with how they handled things. However, I don't think their presence in any way is an effort by anyone to privatize the military.
I'm neutral on whether private security forces were a good thing or not, but i'm a little less skeptical than you are about it being tied to big corporations, and thus the main reason for their existence. They had a role to fill and that's what they did.
Last edited by AeroGuyDC; 04-27-2009 at 01:45 PM..
The sooner Blackwater is out of Iraq the sooner we are. Blackwater, the company that was allowed to kill innocent Iraqis, of the million or so we have killed, and not get charged with anything.
In Obama's defense, he can't change everything right away. For many, he will have to suck it up for the time being, and deal with them over time. Remember, it might take only a few hours to bring a building down, but cleaning up the rubble and reconstruction can take months.
Location: Moose Jaw, in between the Moose's butt and nose.
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I don't care if they were the military's version of Mother Teresa. I don't see, based on our founding fathers and what America stands for that, they are needed. Especially when they are ripping off the government by overbilling and not accounting for how they spend money and most of all, paying someone a least twice the same pay as public military.
From wiki, but it's out of report done by congress.
A Committee on Oversight and Government Reform staff report, based largely on internal Blackwater e-mail messages and State Department documents, describes Blackwater as "being staffed with reckless, shoot-first guards who were not always sober and did not always stop to see who or what was hit by their bullets."[120] A staff report compiled by the House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform on behalf of Representative Waxman questioned the cost-effectiveness of using Blackwater forces instead of U.S. troops. Blackwater charges the government $1,222 per day per guard, "equivalent to $445,000 per year, or six times more than the cost of an equivalent U.S. soldier," the report alleged.[121] During his testimony on Capitol Hill, Erik Prince disputed this figure, saying that it costs money for the government to train a soldier, to house and feed them, they don't just come prepared to fight. "That sergeant doesn't show up naked and untrained", Prince stated.[121][122]
Location: Moose Jaw, in between the Moose's butt and nose.
5,152 posts, read 8,528,010 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EinsteinsGhost
In Obama's defense, he can't change everything right away. For many, he will have to suck it up for the time being, and deal with them over time. Remember, it might take only a few hours to bring a building down, but cleaning up the rubble and reconstruction can take months.
Actually, I may have to eat crow on this. I think it's actually up to the Iraqi government to make decisions about the private armies, not so much Obama's and Blackwater's contract will not be renewed after 9/09. However, what about the other companies?
Location: San Francisco & Fort Worth & Now, Back to IRAQ
2,870 posts, read 3,370,192 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bud Dickman
The sooner Blackwater is out of Iraq the sooner we are. Blackwater, the company that was allowed to kill innocent Iraqis, of the million or so we have killed, and not get charged with anything.
This is a very naive statement,,, Blackwater is not the only security service in Iraq, nor is it even the largest,,, it was simply the most heard of in the US because they are the only ones that ever come in contact with the reporters who ONLY ever stay in the International Zone and have NO idea what it really happening in the rest of Iraq.
Besides, Blackwater isn't going away... they are re-grouping under a different corporation, but the guys on the ground, the 'Blackwater' crew,,, they are all still there... and there is a HUGE list of people who want to work as a PSD! This is an industry that is here to stay, for a good long time, in one place or another.
To suggest that the Iraqi's want the personal security or the US or the military out of Iraq is to believe the propaganda of the extreme fundamentalists and not the majority of the Iraqi public, who are VERY happy that they are there... one reason is because they are able to work for those companies earning more money than they ever would otherwise.
Not even the government of Iraq want any them 'gone!' Remember, in politics, things must be said in certain ways to make 'everyone' happy, but that does not mean that is what is really going on...
... should have learned that from the last administration that said to the public that they did not support torture, when all the while they were telling the CIA to go for it!!!
Location: San Francisco & Fort Worth & Now, Back to IRAQ
2,870 posts, read 3,370,192 times
Reputation: 5678
Quote:
Originally Posted by EinsteinsGhost
In Obama's defense, he can't change everything right away. For many, he will have to suck it up for the time being, and deal with them over time. Remember, it might take only a few hours to bring a building down, but cleaning up the rubble and reconstruction can take months.
Yes, the clean up will take a very long time, but months is a bit optimistic,, the "clean up" will take decades,,, it will require more than sweeping the dust under the rug and making the place look spick and span... it is going to require a complete re-education of the population. This does not happen in one generation, or two or sometimes even three generations. Think how long it took for 'Smoking' to become considered a 'dirty habit that will kill you' from the 'cool, all grown up' reputation it used to have in the American conscience.
The work that needs to be done in Iraq is overwhelmingly huge and so broad that no one person could possibly conceive all that needs to be done... this country is over 30 years behind the rest of the world and they know it, but it takes more than the time they've had so far to catch up... they are only just now getting a grip on just how far behind the rest of the world they are and trying to figure out the best ways they catch up...
They can do it, but they need time, they need help learning how to do things more efficiently, and they need moral support from the world!
Location: Moose Jaw, in between the Moose's butt and nose.
5,152 posts, read 8,528,010 times
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[quote=x2cme;8539569]This is a very naive statement,,, Blackwater is not the only security service in Iraq, nor is it even the largest,,, it was simply the most heard of in the US because they are the only ones that ever come in contact with the reporters who ONLY ever stay in the International Zone and have NO idea what it really happening in the rest of Iraq.
Besides, Blackwater isn't going away... they are re-grouping under a different corporation, but the guys on the ground, the 'Blackwater' crew,,, they are all still there... and there is a HUGE list of people who want to work as a PSD! This is an industry that is here to stay, for a good long time, in one place or another.
My answer:
I didn't know about a huge list. If there is, well, I'm sure that's due to the outrageous pay difference.
Maybe Obama has been watching "24" this season and figures that taking on Wall Street is more than enough without taking on the Jonas Starks of the world as well.
*this was a totally facetious post, but I have been looking for a way to interject this season of "24" into a conversation, so I took the opportunity presented
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, even though I don't think they are actually fighting) is as well. This is why Obama, is still more of a corporatist than a socialist (sorry right wing nutjobs). I hope there will be enough pressure on him to phase out companies like Blackwater, making up for that, if needed, by loosening requirements to join the armed forces (if it is a numbers issue) and/or, making pay in line with each other, private/public.
