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Location: On the "Left Coast", somewhere in "the Land of Fruits & Nuts"
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Quote:
Originally Posted by normie
I just hope the dems never fall into that foolish trap. Can you imagine getting caught up in trying to define the "true liberal"? That's just about the fastest way there is to destroy party unity.
Yup, good advice. And we shouldn't forget that alot of what we call the Neo-Con movement came out of Liberals' own extremists back in the 60s and 70s.
"Neoconservatism... originated in the 1970s as a movement of anti-Soviet liberals and social democrats in the tradition of Truman, Kennedy, Johnson, Humphrey and Henry ('Scoop') Jackson, many of whom preferred to call themselves 'paleoliberals.' [After the end of the Cold War]... many 'paleoliberals' drifted back to the Democratic center... Today's neocons are a shrunken remnant of the original broad neocon coalition. Nevertheless, the origins of their ideology on the left are still apparent. The fact that most of the younger neocons were never on the left is irrelevant; they are the intellectual (and, in the case of William Kristol and John Podhoretz, the literal) heirs of older ex-leftists."
"It took, improbably, the arrival of George Bush in the White House and September 11, 2001, to catapult [neoconservatism] into the public consciousness. When Mr Bush cited its most simplified tenet – that the US should seek to promote liberal democracy around the world – as a key case for invading Iraq, neoconservatism was suddenly everywhere. It was, to its many critics, a unified ideology that justified military adventurism, sanctioned torture and promoted aggressive Zionism." Neoconservatism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Yup, good advice. And we shouldn't forget that alot of what we call the Neo-Con movement came out of Liberals' own extremists back in the 60s and 70s.
I've heard a few different accounts on how the Neo-Con movement came to be, but I definitely agree that the party that caters to a moderate point of view (or at the very least includes and welcomes those with a moderate POV) will always be the party in charge.
I don't know why political parties keep forgetting this.
I've heard a few different accounts on how the Neo-Con movement came to be, but I definitely agree that the party that caters to a moderate point of view (or at the very least includes and welcomes those with a moderate POV) will always be the party in charge.
I don't know why political parties keep forgetting this.
That is why I am an Independent. The Democrats don't want me because I am pro-life. The Republicans don't want me because I insist on thinking for myself and don't believe that the rich should get richer on the back of the working person and the poor.
Location: On the "Left Coast", somewhere in "the Land of Fruits & Nuts"
8,863 posts, read 10,240,474 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LML
That is why I am an Independent. The Democrats don't want me because I am pro-life. The Republicans don't want me because I insist on thinking for myself and don't believe that the rich should get richer on the back of the working person and the poor.
The Dems don't want you, or you don't want the Democrats? Because I doubt there are many Dems who'd have much of a problem with your feelings re: abortion or any other belief for that matter... that's your business.
Seems like the problem only arises when folks also expect the government to intervene and enforce those personal beliefs on everybody else, or try to deny anyone's rights. Yes, Democrats (and some others) do kinda object to that part....
That is why I am an Independent. The Democrats don't want me because I am pro-life. The Republicans don't want me because I insist on thinking for myself and don't believe that the rich should get richer on the back of the working person and the poor.
I guess I'm like you LML. I registered as a dem since I wanted a voice in the primaries. But I think of myself as an Independent. I guess that makes me a dem who does not always vote the party line.
Like you, I'm pro-life. But IMO that's not an important political issue.
And before I go further, let me say that's my opinion and frankly I don't care if some of you out there disagree.
Getting back to the topic, my pro-life stance makes me an independent. But I also belive in gay rights and I lean to the dems on a bunch of other issues. I definitely like their positions on ecology.
This election I almost voted for McCain. That's right, even though I was registered as a dem. I worried Obama might be too inexperienced. But after McCain chose Palin, I realized a lot of experience doesn't mean he would make smart choices. So I crossed my fingers and voted for Obama.
Now that time has passed, I'm very happy with this choice.
Anyway, the point of my post was to tell you there are many people like you. Lots of people don't march in lock step with the party. The nice thing is, I've never felt any scorn or exclusion because I have an independent streak. I guess I'm like Arlen Specter in that way, and like you. Right now the democratic party is a good place for us independent thinkers.
Location: On the "Left Coast", somewhere in "the Land of Fruits & Nuts"
8,863 posts, read 10,240,474 times
Reputation: 6666
Another interesting bit of info. re: Specter's defection to the Dems:
"About 200,000 Pennsylvanians left the Republican voter rolls between 2004 - the last time Specter had to run for re-election - and 2008. Specter would have had a tough time in next year's general election against a high-profile, well-funded Democratic opponent. But the real problem was that he might not have made it past the primary.
The Pennsylvania Republican Party is not just smaller but more conservative, and polls showed that Specter's apostasy on matters of Republican dogma made him all but defenseless against a challenge from the right."
GOP going AWOL at crucial moment in nation's history (http://www.sacbee.com/opinion/story/1825097.html?mi_rss=Opinion - broken link)
So basically, the GOP is not only fielding ideologue candidates that can't win past the primary, they're driving out their own moderates that can.
About 200,000 Pennsylvanians left the Republican voter rolls between 2004 - the last time Specter had to run for re-election - and 2008. Specter would have had a tough time in next year's general election against a high-profile, well-funded Democratic opponent.
I think you've hit on the core point, mateo. Just another example why trying to "weed out the RINOs" is foolish, IMO.
In reality, the GOP could use a whole herd of RINOs right now.
Quote:
Originally Posted by FromVAtoNC
But after McCain chose Palin, I realized a lot of experience doesn't mean he would make smart choices. So I crossed my fingers and voted for Obama..
Ahhhh, Sarah Palin, the gift that keeps on giving!
Time Magazine just named her one of the most influential people of the year and I think that's so true. She was very influential this year, indeed. She influenced many independent voters to switch from McCain to Obama. Thanks Sarah!
Great....................a country with absolutely no checks and balances.
Checks and balances with a non-partisan Congress are always a good thing...
However, the Republican party has become a completely partisan party that opposes 100% of what Obama tries to do - they even oppose his efforts to fix the economic mess THAT THEY CREATED!!!
Given this sort of check-and-balance environment, I think one party rule is not a bad option at all...
Great....................a country with absolutely no checks and balances.
LOL, one independent thinker changes his party and suddenly there are "absolutely no checks and balances." Absolutely none? None whatsoever? Everything's a done deal from now on, no need to even hold sessions of senate? Wow, I thought it was just Specter changing parties, I didn't realize we got Jesus Christ, too. Cool!
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