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Another thing that might interest you is that prosecutors have huge, huge amounts of discretion to charge these offenses as hate crimes or regular crimes. They can easily use personal biases against or for certain groups to manipulate the laws to use to their own liking.
Very good point. That's a big reason why I hate to see new laws created every day. It just gives the government (and those in positions of power) more weapons to use against us.
A friend of mine suggested that every law should have a "sunset clause" so that it's reviewed periodically - say, every 10 years. So many laws are written and passed in the heat of the moment. Sometimes it's only a few years later that we realize that a law wasn't written very well, or is no longer relevant. I think it's often more difficult to repeal a bad law than to pass a good law.
Reading through this thread has been interesting. Those who would abolish
hate crimes legislation should understand that people are being made the victims of crimes because of who they are, or how they look. They aren't random crimes but rather people who are specifically targeted by color, sex
and yes, sexual orientation. I happened to see this referenced on tv as I was
reading the thread, and thought it might add to the discussion.
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Originally Posted by AnUnidentifiedMale
Very good point. That's a big reason why I hate to see new laws created every day. It just gives the government (and those in positions of power) more weapons to use against us.
A friend of mine suggested that every law should have a "sunset clause" so that it's reviewed periodically - say, every 10 years. So many laws are written and passed in the heat of the moment. Sometimes it's only a few years later that we realize that a law wasn't written very well, or is no longer relevant. I think it's often more difficult to repeal a bad law than to pass a good law.
That sounds like an excellent idea so bad laws can be repealed or rewritten after a period of time.
Why is it ridiculous? I think it's a good topic for discussion.
I'm not crazy about hate crime laws because I think they require some mind-reading and assumptions. They're akin to "thought crimes".
With that said, I can accept hate crime laws as long as they don't specifically mention any particular categories of people. For instance, if someone is assaulted because he is heterosexual, he should receive the same preference as someone who is assaulted for being homosexual.
First, for all the folks who think hate crimes criminalize thought consider this. Motivation has always been a factor in the criminal justice system. Of course, motivation is thought. What was your thinking? Why did you do it. So thought has a huge impact on arrests, prosecutions, and sentences.
Second, if someone is attacked because he is gay it strikes fear into a whole community of people. Its a political statement. It could be considered terrorism. This is not the case if someone is attacked for his wallet which would strike fear into everyone without singling out a particular group.
The vast majority of people are not gay. Targeting someone because they are heterosexual is very close to striking fear into everyone. Also, gays are a persecuted minority and are subject to bullying and violence. This persecution is the reason gays fear coming out of the closet. There is no such fear from admitting that you are heterosexual.
You are correct about one thing. This is not a silly topic. Its a very important topic. Its a very important topic for a small minority of people.
that's not how it works. the accused don't have to prove their innocence; the prosecution has to prove the accused is guilty of the charge.
'hate crimes' are an abomination to the ideal of 'equal in the eyes of the law.'
You are assuming that a hate crime is not worse than a 'non-hate' crime when, in fact it is. See my previous post regarding singling out certain minority groups simply because they are members of that group. Of course its worse to beat someone up because they are gay than it is to beat them up for their wallet. Beating someone up because they are gay is an act of terror, my friend.
I hope that would be the case, but I think there's a good chance he would be charged with a hate crime anyway. It would then be up to the defendant to prove that it wasn't.
It is always the prosecution's case to prove that someone is guilty, not the defense's burden to show they are innocent. Where you may bring out writings or statements to prove that I hate someone, I do not have a starting point to show that I don't hate someone. Such a defense is ridiculous: "I actually think such-and-such type person is cool! I've always had gay friends. I have humored them, though I'm straight, and have had sleepovers with large groups of them. Etc."
I'm all for allowing each state the right to choose on their own... btw, that is how the government is, well was originally laid out, but more to the point, not only should it not be added, but the whole hate crime law should be thrown out. Its almost charging someone with the same crime twice. First with the actual crime that they've committed, and then with the hate crime law added. The reason for the crime is not important, the fact that they've committed the crime is sufficient to prosecute. Hitler, doesnt run our government and its legal to hate...
Careful, the thought police might find out you believe it's lawful to hate (thought crime) and refer you to the ministry of love.
Still, as I and someone else mentioned, slurs and epithets are often yelled out during an attack. If someone uses a slur, that can be enough to trigger a hate crime charge, right? The attacker may not be attacking his victim for that reason, but he could get charged for it anyway.
yes, that is exactly right.
and that is one huge reason why 'hate crimes' are such a crock.
the assailant who uses an epithet during the commission of a crime is highly likely to be much more severely punished than the assailant who commits exactly the same crime for exactly the same reason without using an epithet.
and that is one huge reason why 'hate crimes' are such a crock.
the assailant who uses an epithet during the commission of a crime is highly likely to be much more severely punished than the assailant who commits exactly the same crime for exactly the same reason without using an epithet.
hence we have thought and speech crimes. yay.
This is just plain old common sense. How do we start rating hate crimes? If you commit a hate crime against a black person, is it 2 years more than just a standard crime? If it is against a gay person, do you get 3 years?
The problem with this is that it is all about dividing and seperating people into categories. rather than just crimes against people, this is perceived as a crime against demographics. I am not surprised though, that is the M.O. of the left, divide and conquer.
This is just plain old common sense. How do we start rating hate crimes? If you commit a hate crime against a black person, is it 2 years more than just a standard crime? If it is against a gay person, do you get 3 years?
The problem with this is that it is all about dividing and seperating people into categories. rather than just crimes against people, this is perceived as a crime against demographics. I am not surprised though, that is the M.O. of the left, divide and conquer.
excellent and accurate post.
we're all equal, it's just that some are more equal than others
why no special protections for old people, or veterans? or people who are attacked because of their politics?
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On the other hand...
