I'm sick of people who say the "GOP must shed its 'far right base'. (weapon, deaths)
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Abortion is an issue that can have only two basic classifications rather than the large continuum you propose. See, either you think it's OK to kill a living human being with its full complement of chromosomes, or you don't. There isn't a gray area. Those who oppose the Pill, understand that by preventing unterine attachment, you are effectively killing a living human. Again, no gray area. What condoms has to do with abortion is a mystery. That's totally another issue.
So here are the more accurate classifications as per abortion:
1) Conservative - You oppose the killing of all living human beings, at any embryonic or fetal stage.
2) Liberal- You do not oppose the killing of all living human beings at any embryonic or fetal stage.
This is insane.
Most liberals do not support allowing abortion in the third trimester (or even towards the end of the second trimester) except in the case of the mother's life being at serious risk.
Most conservatives are either against abortion altogether, except in the case of the mother's life being at risk (though the most EXTREME RW don't even support this exception), or they are against abortion except in the case of rape or medical necessity with respect to the fetus or the woman.
The most EXTREME RW'ers such as you are against the pill and Plan B. You are trying to protect a fetus that has not even been conceived yet. Your own definition of "life" is that it begins at conception. So why do you feel it must be protected?
Moderates may support abortion being legal, but also support restrictions such as the woman being required to view an ultrasound, parental consent being required for minors, mandatory waiting periods, counseling to inform her of options such as adoption, etc.
You don't need to tell me what I'm trying to say. I can speak quite clearly.
The Palin girl chose to keep her baby. That's the point. Her mother talked about it as a "decision" that she was proud of. If they were truly anti-abortion, they wouldn't have even thought about it as a decision.
That's stupid as hell. Not aborting is the default option. It has always existed. You don't call doing nothing a "choice". That's window dressing for what you people really want, which is abortion on demand. Just say the Palins rejected abortion.
That's stupid as hell. Not aborting is the default option. It has always existed. You don't call doing nothing a "choice". That's window dressing for what you people really want, which is abortion on demand. Just say the Palins rejected abortion.
"You people". It's too bad that you see such division between yourself and those who don't agree with your political positions.
You can turn the abortion issue into a semantical argument if you wish. I'm just using phrases and terminology that the majority uses and understands.
Most liberals do not support allowing abortion in the third trimester (or even towards the end of the second trimester) except in the case of the mother's life being at serious risk.
Wow. How big of them. I'm sure they would allow a two-year-old to live, also.
Most conservatives are either against abortion altogether, except in the case of the mother's life being at risk (though the most EXTREME RW don't even support this exception),
This is a strawman. Only about 500 women a year die in childbirth, and only 600 children die. This means the odds of having to choose between the mother or child is far less than either number. In other words, it nearly never happens. Yet you liberals throw it around like it happens every day. It doesn't. And it's happening less with each passing year.
or they are against abortion except in the case of rape or medical necessity with respect to the fetus or the woman.
Tell me again what the child of rape did to deserve to be hacked to death. Is he a second class citizen? Is his life somehow just not as good as another child's life? You liberals are the extremists here.
The most EXTREME RW'ers such as you are against the pill and Plan B. You are trying to protect a fetus that has not even been conceived yet. Your own definition of "life" is that it begins at conception. So why do you feel it must be protected?
This is by far the stupidest argument you continue to make. As we've said repeatedly, Plan B prevents embryonic attachment to the uterine wall, which is tantamount to an abortion.
Let's say your wife was a cocaine and heroin addict and you two were trying to get pregnant. Knowing these substances almost always cause severe brain damage in children of women using during and before pregnancy, would you try to get her to stop using? If so, why? Wouldn't you just be "protecting a fetus that has not even been conceived yet"?
I hope you can see the idiocy of your comments.
Moderates may support abortion being legal, but also support restrictions such as the woman being required to view an ultrasound, parental consent being required for minors, mandatory waiting periods, counseling to inform her of options such as adoption, etc.
Everything is NOT all black and white.
Bottom line. You either think human life of the unborn should be protected or you don't. No such thing as an "almost abortion".
First of all, there is no "far right". This is just a term invented by liberals to disparage ALL religious conservatives. And by the way, 60 percent of Americans according to Battleground poll describe themselves as "conservative or somewhat conservative". 76.5% of Americans describe themselves as "Christian." This is not the GOP; this is the whole country
The Battleground Poll: 60% of Americans Describe Themselves As Conservative | Say Anything: North Dakota's Most Popular Political Blog (http://sayanythingblog.com/readers/entry/the_battleground_poll_60_of_americans_describe_the mselves_as_conservative/ - broken link) Religious identification in the U.S.
So the idea that just a tiny loud minority of Christian conservative crazies are hijacking the GOP and causing them to lose elections is ludicrous, bigoted, and designed to create a false impression. The vast majority of us ARE Christian conservatives. The reality is, it's the liberals and moderates and those who follow their advice who are losing elections for the GOP.
Sorry, I just don't listen to the liberal media for tips on how to heal my party, anyway. They don't have our best interests at heart. The reason we've lost is because we've taken the media and the moderates' advice. Their narrative goes like this: If we just drop a few things from our platform like the pro-life plank, imagine how many more female voters and moderates we could get. We need to stop being obstructionist and try to get along. We need to reach across the aisle and be more likeable. We need to be more compassionate to the poor, and to do that we need more social spending.
That kind of thinking got us John McCain. He followed that advice to a tee. He worked very hard to get along with Democrats, scorned traditional conservative values, hugged the liberals, wooed the press, and promptly caused us to get our asses beat.
Arlen Spector said "the GOP has moved to the far right". That's the same canard the MSM uses. It's false. The GOP is less, not more, conservative or "right-wing" than we were 15 years ago when we swept control of Congress. And that is why we've lost.
The hardliners are right. We stick to our core conservative principles; staunchly pro-life, anti-illegal immigration, tax cuts, spending cuts, pro capitalist, anti-greenpeace whackjob environmental restrictions, we will start to win elections again. We'll let all the selfish opportunists like Spector, McCain, Hagel, Collins, and Snowe either get onboard or ge off the train. And we'll talk about our plans loudly and often like the GOP did in 1994.
But if we listen to all the anti-Palin moderate pukes out there, those who are embarrassed about the pro-life position, those who are afraid not to be accepted on the DC cocktail circuit, and those who want to be praised by the leftwing media, we're guaranteed to be a minority for a long time.
And for godsake, let's stop sabotaging ourselves by getting rid of our good conservatives because the liberals create a fuss. Tom Delay, Trent Lott et. al. You never see Democrats resign no matter how egregious their behavior is. Hell, William Jefferson can stash $90,000 in a freezer, Clinton's stooge can stuff official documents in his pants, and Barney Frank can run a prostitution ring in his basement. Never any calls for resignation. 'But you let Mark Foley send an email to a kid...no action, just an email...and we get him to resign. We eat our own. We allow George Allen to get hammered by the Washington Post for uttering some nebulous esoteric nonsense word, we allow him to be somehow miraculously cast as a racist for that, and we allow him to get beat without having raised a huge uproar. It's time to STOP listening to the damn leftwing media and the so-called moderates (who are really liberals) for advice on what we should do.
Be conservative. Shout it from the rooftops. Give people confidence. Do what we KNOW is right, and what has been PROVEN to work. Why on earth have we abandoned the proven formula for success. Bold unapologetic conservatism.
Well, your are partly right and partly wrong. The Christian Conservatives pushed the social pendulum way too far to the right for most of America. The abortion issue is a legitimate issue for them and they should have stuck with it. Their anti-gay agenda and anti gay marriage agenda turned off most of America. Gays are not infringing upon anyone else's rights even if they are allowed to get married. Most are against these things based upon their religious views and beliefs which have nothing to do with legitimate state interests. The final straw for me was when Congress intervened in the Terry Schiavo case where they had no right to be and had no jurisdiction.
Then George Bush attacked Iraq for no reason. He told us some reasons but they were all bogus. This was what Bush called a 'preemtive' war. Everyone knows that if there were no oil in Iraq, we would not have attacked Iraq. Now if we have to fight a legitimate war we will be in much worse shape to do so because of the blood and treasure lost in Iraq.
Then George Bush forgot that he had a veto pen. I don't think he vetoed anything until his last year in office.
The Republicans do indeed have to jettison the Religious Right on many so called 'Family Values'. They need to stick to the abortion issue and leave the rest of us alone if we are not infringing on anyone else's rights unless there is a legitimate state interest. They need to be fiscally conservative and socially moderate. That, my friend, is where most of American is.
Originally posted by reelist in atlanta
Well, your are partly right and partly wrong. The Christian Conservatives pushed the social pendulum way too far to the right for most of America. The abortion issue is a legitimate issue for them and they should have stuck with it. Their anti-gay agenda and anti gay marriage agenda turned off most of America. Gays are not infringing upon anyone else's rights even if they are allowed to get married. Most are against these things based upon their religious views and beliefs which have nothing to do with legitimate state interests. The final straw for me was when Congress intervened in the Terry Schiavo case where they had no right to be and had no jurisdiction.
Then George Bush attacked Iraq for no reason. He told us some reasons but they were all bogus. This was what Bush called a 'preemtive' war. Everyone knows that if there were no oil in Iraq, we would not have attacked Iraq. Now if we have to fight a legitimate war we will be in much worse shape to do so because of the blood and treasure lost in Iraq.
Then George Bush forgot that he had a veto pen. I don't think he vetoed anything until his last year in office.
The Republicans do indeed have to jettison the Religious Right on many so called 'Family Values'. They need to stick to the abortion issue and leave the rest of us alone if we are not infringing on anyone else's rights unless there is a legitimate state interest. They need to be fiscally conservative and socially moderate. That, my friend, is where most of American is.
- Reel
I agree 100%. As a christian, I'm saddened that other christians became so sidetracked to other issues besides abortion, especially since it is such a worthy cause. Abortion to me is a totally separate issue from all the others. I don't care about gay marriage, or school prayer or whatever other issues Dr. Dobson stirs people up with. We also shouldn't have wedded ourselves to the GOP. I'm afraid that when people think of us, they think of our association with the GOP more than our association with Jesus. When that happens, you know something's gone wrong.
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It's too bad that you see such division between yourself and those who don't agree with your political positions.