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I find it very telling that people can only find examples of "advantage" for minorities (non Asian ones) in an academic setting.
How about out in society? Anyone? How about interracial relationships? Or racial profiling? Or just flat out racism? How about being not seeing a person as an individual but instead a representative of an entire monolith of people?
Gosh it's nice being a straight, white male. Never having to worry that cops are watching you extra closely. Never having to wonder if the bank just screwed you over on you home loan. Never having to wonder if some business just threw away your resume because of your color. Never having to wonder if some person didn't rent you an apartment because he thought you were gay. Never having to wonder if you are being paid less than a male coworker just because you're a woman.
You'd have to be pretty stupid to trade all of those advantages for the slim chance that you might benefit from an AA program.
AA programs are an imperfect attempt to make up for all those other disadvantages. Who in their right mind would think that AA makes it advantageous to be a minority? That's just more stupidity than I can handle.
Compare how much money schools with 80%+ white students get to how much money schools with 80%+ minorities get.
Before you say "Their family pays more taxes"
poor kids shouldn't be punished because their parents were dumb or lazy.
Universities are different from K-12 schools.
And, Dopo, as a Texan I'm not sure if you're aware of the way our public schools are funded, but what I'd support is abandoning all local school property taxes and having the state give an equitable amount for each student at each school.
So then your conclusion would be that Poor people are at a disadvantage, not minorities.
I was referring to, specifically, that people think Minorities are held back just because of their race. If a minority wants to enroll at the 80% white school, nobody is stopping them.
I would like to know how you think people are held back by their race? If anything, Asians and Whites are held back because of Affirmative Action. Sure, racism exists, but does it really hold anyone back? Companies are forced to meet quotas, so they arent being held back in the work place. What exactly do they think is holding them back from success? As I see it, if they had a higher high school graduation rate then there wouldn't be such a big success gap.
The key to success for anyone is graduating high school and a college degree. White, black, asian, latino, purple. Are these people really "held" back or are they just using racism as a blanket excuse to cover their lack of success?
I might assume race had something to do with it if African Americans and Latinos graduated high school at the same rate as white students and still had an average pay that was lower...but that is not the case.
What about this example?
A minority person being interviewed for a position that they are qualified for, and have the education background to match the position, but the hiring manager can't get over the stereotypes of that race and they decide not to hire this candidate based on that?
Wouldn't that be an example of being held back because of race?
I'm willing to bet that the "quotas" you speak of don't stop this from happening.
I think American Born Asians have a huge advantage in life because most people think that Asians are the model minority and assume that each one is going to full fill the stereotype. At my company, a large Fortune 500 employer with thousands of employees, most managers tell me to recruit for Asians because they are low drama hard workers. If an Asian applies they are likely to be hired.
And, Dopo, as a Texan I'm not sure if you're aware of the way our public schools are funded, but what I'd support is abandoning all local school property taxes and having the state give an equitable amount for each student at each school.
That would be great! The money I pay now can then go to private school tuition! Oh happy day!
School property taxes cost most Texans several thousands a year (plus the city and county property taxes on top of that). It's insane.
Increase our sales taxes slightly or maybe alcohol or tobacco taxes and fund all schools equitably.
I'm a Texan. I know how much I pay, and it's a lot. I made a conscious decision to move to an area where I would be taxed a lot. The schools are great. If you want to stop that and make it all "equal" that's cool. But do you really think that would make the school districts "equal"?
You see, no matter how much money you pour into a school, it will not matter if parents aren't actively participating in their children's lives. Furthermore, the moment you start infilitrating my school with BS, I will move. My children get one chance to have a great education. There's no sacrifice too big to make sure it's a successful undertaking.
You can try to legislate equality, but until responsibility is put into the equation, schools will not be equal and neither will outcomes.
So then your conclusion would be that Poor people are at a disadvantage, not minorities.
Minorities are disproportionately poor. Your argument ignores any effect of race. Convenient, that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ocexpo
I was referring to, specifically, that people think Minorities are held back just because of their race. If a minority wants to enroll at the 80% white school, nobody is stopping them.
Sometimes. Not all the time. Do guidance counselors bias their recommendations? Does high school funding put minorities at disadvantages? Do admission offices judge applicants fairly? Do standardized tests favor whites? Do legacy admissions favor whites? Burying your head in the sand and saying, "minorities can apply wherever they want" just gives you license to ignore any problems. And that's how things never really change.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ocexpo
I would like to know how you think people are held back by their race? If anything, Asians and Whites are held back because of Affirmative Action. Sure, racism exists, but does it really hold anyone back?
Let's see. For hundreds of years, minorities were actively held back by overt racism. As a consequence, our society was dominated by whites. Then, several decades ago, we tried to end that racism - now the racism is less obvious. Yet whites are still dominant. I guess the only logical conclusion you can draw is ... minorities are just not trying???? Seriously?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ocexpo
Companies are forced to meet quotas, so they arent being held back in the work place.
Name one company that has quotas.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ocexpo
I might assume race had something to do with it if African Americans and Latinos graduated high school at the same rate as white students and still had an average pay that was lower...but that is not the case.
And the ability to graduate high school is completely unaffected by racial issues? That's your argument?
You're like a creationist. You start with your conclusion - that there is no racism - then you build your case around that. There can't be racism, so it must mean that minorities just aren't trying. They don't have positions of power, but that's just because they're not graduating high school.
We live in a country that may well be offended by racism, but it’s equally offended that anyone might actually charge as much.
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