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I think the issue often in contest is if it is socially derived, genetic, or chemically developed. Depending on which one, the approach of either side changes. If it is genetic, then some might say it is a naturally occurring and a functional aspect of evolutionary balance such as I hypothesized concerning population control and gene pool elimination.
If it is chemical, then the issue becomes an abnormality of developmental balance similar to common deviations that result in all kinds of behaviors that are often balanced through medicine.
If it is a choice, then it may be socially derived which indicates various influencing behaviors or practices that produce it more commonly.
It also could be a factor of all combined or combination of.
Each possible conclusion brings forth different responses in how it may concern various issues with it.
Each sides position may weaken or strengthen depending on the conclusion and personally I think this inserts a political motive in the research conclusions and process for either side. Though in politics, validity is often just an informality brushed aside.
Norman, I think you're analyzing the issue too much. From my perspective, i don't care if its genetic, chemical or social. As a homosexual I strongly suspect there is a genetic predisposition. When I said social, i meant regardless of what the cause(s) are, on a human level and for everyday life this is a social issue. I just want to be treated as a human being with equal access to the same basic human righst as the next guy. I don't need acceptance from all individuals of society, but i do need equality, not second tier status because members of society think i'm an abomination, against gods will, or a chemical abnormality
I do appreciate your input however - I find you fascinating. Hell, I'd take you out for drinks and listen to you all night.
you have no problem calling us bigots so I don't see how throwing out the other side of the argument out there is inconsistent.
The other flaw in your argument is because of representation. You just argued that information should be presented based on the statistical representation of the population. Well in the case of homosexuals with children in school, they are such a tiny portion of the population (representation) by your logic homosexuality should never be addressed. But I'm sure your hypocrisy will find a way to backpedal against your own logic.
That's what I tell anyone about their behavior. "Pedophiles, you should not feel ashamed! Thieves, you should not feel ashamed! Liars, you should not feel ashamed!..."
Yep, the reps up are telling me that I'm totally out of it.
it's not your side of the argument that I have no tolerane for, it's your tactics..
Whatever your opinion is on gays.. the fact of the matter is.. this issue effects their families, and yes there are children involved, so in your attempt to destroy gay everything in society, you're effecting children who are innocent from this whole debate, and a certain level or respect is in order when dealing with the issue at a school level.. If someone or a group of gays were conducting themselves in the same manner towards your family for your religious beliefs or ethnicity or anything.. and by means of the schools impacting your children in such a manner, I wouldn't hesistate to put and end to it... I'm responsible for supporting an environment of learning where ALL students are welcome, not just yours, or the children of parents that share your opinion. The gay parents are not advocating the removal of aspects of your family life and lifestyle.. but you are advocating the silencing and disrespecting of theirs.. Surely you can see where that puts teachers in deciding what is the right thing to do?
If you want to equate gays to pedophiles and murderers and liars, then by all means.. that is your right and your opinion, but don't think for a minute that you have a right to spout that in the face of gay families... because you feel that your in a righteous position..
I don't care how you want to justify it.. it's wrong...and that is why you should re-evaluate your character...
This thread is about homosexal issues related to the education system and specifically one teacher and his actions in response to the issue...
So, proper context is in order when addressing the issue..
if you want to go to a gay pride rally and combat it there with your angry tactics and self righteousness, go for it.. but in the halls of schools where everyone is welcome sinner or not sinner and their families.. you're out of line.. enjoy your reps, I'm well aware that there are people out there that share your viewpoint in the level you present it... That doesn't make it right or acceptable...
gay families and gay couples aren't sitting here with just their pride at stake.. this isn't a silly little "see who gets to gloat" match.. it's their lifes we're talking about and debating...gloating about losing a legal battle is really low class and disgusting considering what that legal battle is doing to millions of families and couples.. you certainly have every right to your opinion, but it is my opinion that your opinion is disgusting and rude at best.. You're not a very good christian warrior when you destroy people's lives.. try acting more like your founder.. you'll get a lot further with people and actually not look hypocritcal.. that's something you're going to want especially since you're on the side of righteousness right?
I'm not really that concerned with gay rights activists... But when it becomes unacceptable in society or the workplace to be a christian and stand for what you believe in...... We are living in a backward, fallen and depraved world...
But in all serious, you do realize that in America the people oppressing whatever minority never win, right? The women won the right to vote, the blacks won the right to be treated like human beings. It was only 60 years ago that the blacks obtained equal rights and now we have a black president. Gays have already won the right to marry in a few states, and these laws don't regress once they've been achieved. You do realize you're fighting a losing battle and two generations from now this won't even be an issue anymore?
What I do think is great is all the bigoted data we'll have from this century that's easily accessible because it's online. We'll be able to really study bigotry at its core, because all the racists from 1940 and on refuse to admit that they were/are racist because it's not PC. Now your homophobia is all over the internet and there's no denying it. All you bigots, keep posting, just so that your grandchildren will uncover it somehow one day and be mortified that their grandparents could be so backwards. You know that's what's going to happen, right? You'll be the crazy ole homophobe grandma. "She can't help it, she grew up in the beginning of the century". Get ready to be patronized by the people you want to respect you!
I bet a lot of straight people here are laughing at your panic over homosexuality.
And funny - my straight next-door neighbors often tell me how happy they are that I'm living next to them. They seem to be very happy to have a "fagggot" living next to them.
obviously they are koolaide drinking *******s right?
where do these people come from?
when I see ridiculous posts from people with low rep numbers and recent joining dates, it makes me wonder if some people out there have dual login handles and like to just be twits...
But in all serious, you do realize that in America the people oppressing whatever minority never win, right? The woman won the right to vote, the blacks won the right to be treated like human beings. It was only 60 years ago that the blacks obtained equal rights and now we have a black president. Gays have already won the right to marry in a few states, and these laws don't regress once they've been achieved. You do realize you're fighting a losing battle and two generations from now this won't even be an issue anymore?
What I do think is great is all the bigoted data we'll have from this century that's easily accessible because it's online. We'll be able to really study bigotry at its core, because all the racists from 1940 and on refuse to admit that they were/are racist because it's not PC. Now your homophobia is all over the internet and there's no denying it. All you bigots, keep posting, just so that your grandchildren will uncover it somehow one day and be mortified that their grandparents could be so backwards. You know that's what's going to happen, right? You'll be the crazy ole homophobe grandma. "She can't help it, she grew up in the beginning of the century". Get ready to be patronized by the people you want to respect you!
ouch good point.. I will refrain from saying anything further...
I will quietly just give you rep points because you made me pee my pants laughing at the irony of all this...
Gays have already won the right to marry in a few states, and these laws don't regress once they've been achieved.
I wish that were the case, but Prop. 8 in California proved that the laws can easily be reversed.
In the 1970s, Anita Bryant successfully led the charge in overturning gay rights ordinances across the country. It then took many years for those ordinances to be reinstated.
In the end, the anti-gay crowd won't win, but they will have their victories - temporary as they may be.
obviously they are koolaide drinking *******s right?
where do these people come from?
when I see ridiculous posts from people with low rep numbers and recent joining dates, it makes me wonder if some people out there have dual login handles and like to just be twits...
Homophobes are fighting a war they can't and won't win. Of course they're panicking. Panicking is often the precursor to acceptance or dying. In this case, they'll be doing both (accepting gays and experiencing the death of institutionalized and socially accepted homophobia).
I wish that were the case, but Prop. 8 in California proved that the laws can easily be reversed.
In the 1970s, Anita Bryant successfully led the charge in overturning gay rights ordinances across the country. It then took many years for those ordinances to be reinstated.
In the end, the anti-gay crowd won't win, but they will have their victories - temporary as they may be.
In all honestly, I think Prop 8 will be overturned because the many blacks who came out only to vote for Obama and voted for Prop 8, probably won't come out to vote again if they continue with their historical trend of not voting. Just make sure it's not on the ballot four years from now!
ouch good point.. I will refrain from saying anything further...
I will quietly just give you rep points because you made me pee my pants laughing at the irony of all this...
In all honestly, I think Prop 8 will be overturned because the many blacks who came out only to vote for Obama and voted for Prop 8, probably won't come out to vote again if they continue with their historical trend of not voting. Just make sure it's not on the ballot four years from now!
Yeah, it's only a matter of time before Prop. 8 is overturned - maybe sooner than a lot of people think. The experts believe that the California Supreme Court will uphold Prop. 8, but public opinion has already shifted since the November election. Just a few months ago, it was thought that 2010 would be too soon to try to get voters to support same-sex marriage, but now, it's starting to look like 2010 may be realistic after all.
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