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Tell me this, if it's that easy to track someone's movements without GPS, why did law enforcement even argue for the "need" to do so without a warrant?
I never said it was "easy" it is time consuming, and manpower intensive. Personally, if one cop can track a suspect with a GPS, instead of four, and the other three can go off an investigate something else, more power to them.
"And yes, freedom is indeed measured by how easy it is for the police to track the movements and actions of its citizens."
I require a bit more sophisticated reasoning than just one of man hours spent. For example, there are listening devices which can record conversations through the exterior walls and windows. The FBI has had them for years. To use them requires a warrant, which is right and just because you have an expectation of privacy in your home or business. But as the court reasoned and I have yet to read a cogent argument in rebuttal:
"We discern no privacy interest protected by the Fourth Amendment that is invaded when police attach a device to the outside of a vehicle, as long as the information obtained is the same as could be gained by the use of other techniques that do not require a warrant,"
"If you feel comfortable living in a Stasi-like environment, go live somewhere more fitting of your ambivalence like Pyonyang or Havana."
Never been to Pyonyang but I have been to Eastern Europe in the old Evil Empire days and Havana on several occasions, I do indeed know it is like to be in a police state and this doesn't even come close to approximating that level of governmental oppression despite your best attempt at hyperbole.
"The last thing we need in the U.S. is people who don't understand the importance of putting limits on the powers of law enforcement."
Oh, are we at that point in the discussion whereby it is a matter of "love it or leave it?"
I never said it was "easy" it is time consuming, and manpower intensive. Personally, if one cop can track a suspect with a GPS, instead of four, and the other three can go off an investigate something else, more power to them.
"And yes, freedom is indeed measured by how easy it is for the police to track the movements and actions of its citizens."
I require a bit more sophisticated reasoning than just one of man hours spent. For example, there are listening devices which can record conversations through the exterior walls and windows. The FBI has had them for years. To use them requires a warrant, which is right and just because you have an expectation of privacy in your home or business. But as the court reasoned and I have yet to read a cogent argument in rebuttal:
"We discern no privacy interest protected by the Fourth Amendment that is invaded when police attach a device to the outside of a vehicle, as long as the information obtained is the same as could be gained by the use of other techniques that do not require a warrant,"
"If you feel comfortable living in a Stasi-like environment, go live somewhere more fitting of your ambivalence like Pyonyang or Havana."
Never been to Pyonyang but I have been to Eastern Europe in the old Evil Empire days and Havana on several occasions, I do indeed know it is like to be in a police state and this doesn't even come close to approximating that level of governmental oppression despite your best attempt at hyperbole.
"The last thing we need in the U.S. is people who don't understand the importance of putting limits on the powers of law enforcement."
Oh, are we at that point in the discussion whereby it is a matter of "love it or leave it?"
How quaint.
I think this discussion is a red herring... the bottom line for me is that if they can "seize" your vehicle and attach a gps without a warrant given the court's reasoning, what stops them from doing this to any piece of personal property that you own? Certainly, besides your home, your highest expectation of privacy is with respect to your vehicle.
I think this discussion is a red herring... the bottom line for me is that if they can "seize" your vehicle and attach a gps without a warrant given the court's reasoning, what stops them from doing this to any piece of personal property that you own? Certainly, besides your home, your highest expectation of privacy is with respect to your vehicle.
What part of your privacy is being abrogated by knowing where your car is at any given moment? Where is the expectation of privacy when you are driving on a public street, park on a public thoroughfare and as the court pointed out, observed parking even in a private garage? A GPS doesn't reveal what you have said, what you have written or what you possess.
As for what stops them from doing this to other pieces of personal property... well unless your home moves, I don't see what the point would be to place a tracking device on it.
How do you "sweep" your car exactly? Sorry, I am a little slow today
it means take a look at your car, under the rims, wheelwells, bumpers and in the engine for anything that might look like a device. you can also buy devices that will sweep the entire car for you in less than a minute.
people say that would be crazy, but some will do alot to keep their privacy to themselves.
I don't like this either. If I found something like this on my car it would take a swim in the lake nearby. I would consider it abandoned property.
nah, a good thing to do with a gps tracking device if found, is to attach it to a vehicle at a truckstop that comes from a few states away from where you live.
We've all watched cop shows where they set up surveillance of suspects from buildings, other homes and cars, we also know that police will "tail" a suspect whenever they leave their home whether by car or public transportation ("Follow that car" comes to mind) so what is so offensive about using a gps tracking device instead of police car?
Like traffic cameras the objection simply seems to be the employment of technology to simply perform tasks that police already do and have done for many years.
Or, am I missing something?
I can lose a cop car if they are following, with a gps device the only way you can lose the cops is to search your vehicle for any such devices and attaching them to some southbound 18 wheeler.
I can lose a cop car if they are following, with a gps device the only way you can lose the cops is to search your vehicle for any such devices and attaching them to some southbound 18 wheeler.
If the cops are following You, I don't definitely don't want them to lose You.
First off let me say I am against law enforcement attempting to go around getting a warrant.
But most of all I waanted to let you know that your cell phone, while turn on, can be used to locate a person just as any other GPS device can.
For those that see no problem with the government being able to ignore the need to get a warrant, those that are willing to give up freedoms for security, gain neither.
Casper
If the "government" wants to track the location of my car they are welcome to do so. If the tracker is a Private Investigator he will have a problem. If I were doing anything illegal I would not be using my own car and neither would any crook with a semi-functioning brain. I would “sweep my vehicle” and, if tagged, never use it for anything illegal. BTW - People should be aware that the “On Star” system already allows GPS Tracking of individual vehicles.
I figure this is just another “the government is tracking me” paranoia thread. If you use your vehicle on the public roads and your vehicle already has a traceable license plate adding an electronic bug only makes the task of tracking you easier but not any different from a legal point of view.
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