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You don't have to be homosexual to want equality for Americans who happen to be gay or lesbian.
And conversely, you don't have to be heterosexual to believe that marriage is defined as one man and one woman. I'm glad we agree that sexuality does not equal ideology.
Sagran, I'm going to play devil's advocate here for a second. If a gay politician sincerely believes that heterosexuals deserve greater rights than homosexuals, is he really being hateful? I've known normal, psychologically healthy gay guys who simply don't see a need for same-sex marriage, hate crime legislation, or other laws that come under the umbrella of "gay rights".
But do they bad mouth or degrade homosexuals? Do they use hateful speech towards gays, climbing on the backs to gays to improve their position? Do they throw homosexuals under the proverbial bus while pretending they aren't gay? That's another part of my definition of "hatefulness".
I can accept a homosexual politician saying that he doesn't agree with "gay rights". I wouldn't agree with him and would hold my nose if I had to vote for him but that applies to straight politicians who believed the same way.
Interesting that you phrase it "sincerely believes that heterosexuals deserve greater rights than homosexuals". I hadn't thought of it quite that way. I can understand a gay guy thinking that as long as he believes he has no need for those rights. He doesn't need them so why should anyone else?
But do they bad mouth or degrade homosexuals? Do they use hateful speech towards gays, climbing on the backs to gays to improve their position? Do they throw homosexuals under the proverbial bus while pretending they aren't gay? That's another part of my definition of "hatefulness".
I guess I would call that hypocrisy before I'd call it hatefulness. If there's actually a feeling of hate, it's probably driven inward more than it is outward.
I don't think I've ever heard of Charlie Crist or David Dreier making anti-gay remarks - have they? They're probably closeted gay men, but that doesn't equate to "badmouthing" or degrading homosexuals.
I guess I would call that hypocrisy before I'd call it hatefulness. If there's actually a feeling of hate, it's probably driven inward more than it is outward.
I don't think I've ever heard of Charlie Crist or David Dreier making anti-gay remarks - have they? They're probably closeted gay men, but that doesn't equate to "badmouthing" or degrading homosexuals.
That brings us back to what I originally said in Post #45
Quote:
So for me the measure is not so much whether or not the politician is opposed to same sex marriage but whether his attitude towards gays is hateful. I know it's subjective, I get to define "hateful" for my purpose. I suppose a better measure for me is if the politician is one of those "family values" hypocrites, the holier-than-thou types. I have to say, given the chance I'd out someone like that.
I really don't know much about the positions of either of those men, including those on homosexuality.
I think it's funny.. the reality of the issue is sobering for some people, but for many of us gay people, it is what we've known all along but have never been given any ounce of credit. For too long society has said, "you're a disgusting sodomite, I wouldn't trust a word out of your mouth.. he's married and an upstanding citizen"
The local newspaper here in boise has been trying to nail larry craig for years.. he's had sexual relations with a few people here in town, and he's been known to frequent a creepy park where all the "married and closeted cruising men go"
They got lucky, and larry craig got himself caught by police... and that same year the Idahostateman recieved an award for outstanding journalism.. for all the evidence and stories that have been compiled over the years, and some never being published.
I think visibilization of anything eventually makes it normal in the eyes of the people and forces acceptance. Keeping homosexuality in closets and/or controlled environments (Gay Pride events -once a year-, gay resorts, etc.) is a way of keeping everyone able to ignore and distort human nature. It also spreads lifelong unhappiness in people who, to keep up with society and family, deny themselves the chance to really live. Gay (same as straight, bi, even asexual!) people are everywhere, which is how it's always been and always will be. I find it sad how badly managed Hollywood actors insist in a closet too, when their professional world shouldn't even require it.
I'm all for outing politicians. I don't like private life mixed with political jobs. I don't care for such gossip (even the "First Lady" thing I find ridiculous, although I'm guessing it's analogous to the Queen or Princess in monarchic countries -I'm not pro-monarchy so...-). But until homosexuality ceases to be a political issue, out them and force them to be honest once and for all.
I see your point. Good job. I think I agree with you that it amounts to bullying. On the other hand, it's pathetic to me that some of these guys have had relationships with other guys, yet get married to women and proclaim to be totally heterosexual. That's a character flaw more than a political flaw, in my opinion, but still one worth noting.
I think... yes, I'm sure this happens a VERY GREAT DEAL MORE than most people realize. And in many cases continue to have relationships.
Is it right to expose gay politicians who vote against gay equality? If you say that being gay should be "a private matter", ask yourself this: If the news media knew that a politician was cheating on his wife, should they report it? Would it matter if it's a Democrat or a Republican?
I know what you're thinking. If you've seen the film, spill it already. So who does he out? Dick's targets include Florida's current governor, Charlie Crist, who was viewed for a time as a front-runner to be John McCain's vice-presidential pick; David Dreier (R-San Dimas), who was once a leading candidate for the House majority leader post when the Republicans still controlled Congress; Ken Mehlman, George Bush's campaign manager during the 2004 election and former Republican National Committee chairman; former New York City mayor Ed Koch; the now-retired Idaho Sen. Larry Craig; Jim McCrery (R-La.), a ranking member on the House Ways and Means Committee who retired last year; Ed Schrock (R-Va.), who retired in 2004; and -- gasp -- the prominent Fox News anchor Shepard Smith.
Absolutely! Every hypocrite should be exposed no matter which side (right or left) they are on
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