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View Poll Results: Under which circumstances should abortion be legal, if at all?
Legal under any circumstances 47 39.83%
Legal under most circumstances 35 29.66%
Legal only in a few circumstances 27 22.88%
Illegal in all circumstances 9 7.63%
Voters: 118. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 05-17-2009, 03:36 PM
 
21,026 posts, read 22,102,976 times
Reputation: 5941

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Quote:
Originally Posted by afoigrokerkok View Post
Planned Parenthood always fights against bills in state legislatures to require counseling, viewing an ultrasound, etc.
Yes, of course they do!

Is there FORCED counseling when you are considering any other medical procedure?????



WHO decides what that "counseling" should be? YOU? Or some other form of gestapo?



FORCED ultra-sound??? Are you NUTS?


OK, how about FORCED prostate exams, forced colonoscopys, forced lobotomys?????Raised your hand for any of those???

EVERY Pro-choice person I know is for Sex Education and birth control in any form a woman wants it.
So you're lying when you say that people don't advocate other forms of birth control.
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Old 05-17-2009, 03:41 PM
 
Location: Texas
14,975 posts, read 16,419,139 times
Reputation: 4586
Quote:
Originally Posted by Who?Me?! View Post
Yes, of course they do!

Is there FORCED counseling when you are considering any other medical procedure?????



WHO decides what that "counseling" should be? YOU? Or some other form of gestapo?



FORCED ultra-sound??? Are you NUTS?


OK, how about FORCED prostate exams, forced colonoscopys, forced lobotomys?????Raised your hand for any of those???

EVERY Pro-choice person I know is for Sex Education and birth control in any form a woman wants it.
So you're lying when you say that people don't advocate other forms of birth control.
A bill recently passed in the TX Legislature to require ultrasound effective Sept. 1! Counseling is already required!

I'm glad.

Many other states have similar requirements.

You still get to "choose" to have an abortion but, yes, you actually have to think about it first. That makes sense. Abortion is a medical procedure but it's different from any other; you know that as well as I do. The law should reflect it.

Counseling to advise of other options actually does promote "choices" more so than no counseling.
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Old 05-17-2009, 03:49 PM
 
18,339 posts, read 18,947,943 times
Reputation: 15647
I am on the other end of having to view an ultrasound. I think the majority of woman who have abortions have thought about it since the day they realized they were pregnant. they know what they are doing and what an abortion is. to have to "show" a woman an ultrasound of a fetus in hopes that she will change her mind, can do nothing but make her possibly feel worse or guilty about her choice. to me it is rubbing your "nose in it" and it seems punitive
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Old 05-17-2009, 03:53 PM
 
Location: Texas
14,975 posts, read 16,419,139 times
Reputation: 4586
Quote:
Originally Posted by hothulamaui View Post
I am on the other end of having to view an ultrasound. I think the majority of woman who have abortions have thought about it since the day they realized they were pregnant. they know what they are doing and what an abortion is. to have to "show" a woman an ultrasound of a fetus in hopes that she will change her mind, can do nothing but make her possibly feel worse or guilty about her choice. to me it is rubbing your "nose in it" and it seems punitive
It's generally red states where this is required. I think making her guilty is the legislative intent.

The counseling informing the woman of other options, however, certainly does promote "choices."
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Old 05-17-2009, 04:00 PM
 
21,026 posts, read 22,102,976 times
Reputation: 5941
Quote:
Originally Posted by afoigrokerkok View Post
A bill recently passed in the TX Legislature to require ultrasound effective Sept. 1! Counseling is already required!

I'm glad.

Many other states have similar requirements.

You still get to "choose" to have an abortion but, yes, you actually have to think about it first. That makes sense. Abortion is a medical procedure but it's different from any other; you know that as well as I do. The law should reflect it.

Counseling to advise of other options actually does promote "choices" more so than no counseling.
Well, of course you're glad....men who know they have no control over women in any way need to see legislation controlling women....it's the only "gratification" they ever get



Now we need forced vasectomies....I wonder why you're not in favor of that???



Then we need forced counseling on choosing a prospective mate.


Then we need forced counseling on how many times we have sex.

Now we need laws where men who rape or molest children or impregnate women who subsequently get an abortion...shot through the head.

Last edited by Who?Me?!; 05-17-2009 at 05:00 PM..
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Old 05-17-2009, 04:25 PM
 
18,339 posts, read 18,947,943 times
Reputation: 15647
Quote:
Originally Posted by afoigrokerkok View Post
It's generally red states where this is required. I think making her guilty is the legislative intent. this is why I am against it.

The counseling informing the woman of other options, however, certainly does promote "choices."
again I think the majority of women having abortions already know the choice. there are only three. give birth, have abortion, or adoption. if she can find her way to the clinic I think she knows her choice already.
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Old 05-17-2009, 05:27 PM
 
Location: Texas
14,975 posts, read 16,419,139 times
Reputation: 4586
Quote:
Originally Posted by Who?Me?! View Post
Well, of course you're glad....men who know they have no control over women in any way need to see legislation controlling women....it's the only "gratification" they ever get



Now we need forced vasectomies....I wonder why you're not in favor of that???



Then we need forced counseling on choosing a prospective mate.


Then we need forced counseling on how many times we have sex.

Now we need laws where men who rape or molest children or impregnate women who subsequently get an abortion...shot through the head.
I didn't write the laws. You should also be aware that many female legislators in the states where the laws exist did, in fact, vote for them.

And, BTW, I'm against the death penalty but rape or child molestation should be punishable by an automatic sentence of life in prison.

Last edited by afoigrokerkok; 05-17-2009 at 05:43 PM..
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Old 05-17-2009, 07:42 PM
 
Location: Las Vegas, NV
3,849 posts, read 3,743,967 times
Reputation: 1706
Quote:
Originally Posted by afoigrokerkok View Post
Planned Parenthood always fights against bills in state legislatures to require counseling, viewing an ultrasound, etc.
Again I have to ask you for the source of your information. It's not that I don't believe you, but I'd really like to read it for myself.
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Old 05-18-2009, 05:13 AM
 
19,198 posts, read 31,413,343 times
Reputation: 4013
Quote:
Originally Posted by camping! View Post
This is what you said:
It would be entirely common for a case of fetal death at a point up to 28 weeks to be treated via the insertion of laminaria followed by the performance of a dilatation and extraction
If you didn't mean that a d&x was the common procedure for fetal demise then why would you label it such?
Perhaps you merely need to look more closely into the meaning of the phrase "it would be entirely common". It would be entirely common for example to meet a left-handed person, an African-American, or someone with blue eyes. Many women are not willing to be put through the stress, pain, and exertion involved in delivering a fetus that is dead when a simple surgical alternative exists. The fact is not changed simply because you and the women in your support group were comforted in having chosen a different path. These, as has been said now by many, are matters of choice to be made by the woman involved and her chosen medical and other advisors. Only when you are either involved or chosen do you have any role to play in such a matter.
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Old 05-18-2009, 05:40 AM
 
Location: San Diego
50,134 posts, read 46,754,366 times
Reputation: 33964
Quote:
Originally Posted by msconnie73 View Post
If that is the case, then men should not be obligated to pay child support if they have no say over whether to abort a child or not.
Agreed. If he doesn't and she does want it then I agree.
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