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Old 07-27-2011, 06:40 PM
 
9,848 posts, read 8,268,824 times
Reputation: 3296

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Quote:
Originally Posted by newhandle View Post
GOP folks did not object when the EPA was set up under Nixon, or when Bush 1 required improved mileage, or when Bush 2 did the same thing.
Typical thing happened though, it grew out of control and tried to take everything over.
I don't think the intention of the program was bad, but it got politicized and once it got a large budget it wanted to grow like a cancer.

If YOU can come up with a way to get the better mileage with great big safe cars, GREAT. Outside of that you are killing people by shrinking cars and the metal used in them.
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Old 07-27-2011, 06:47 PM
 
3,504 posts, read 3,914,919 times
Reputation: 1357
Quote:
Originally Posted by RCCCB View Post
Typical thing happened though, it grew out of control and tried to take everything over.
I don't think the intention of the program was bad, but it got politicized and once it got a large budget it wanted to grow like a cancer.

If YOU can come up with a way to get the better mileage with great big safe cars, GREAT. Outside of that you are killing people by shrinking cars and the metal used in them.
his point is you didnt care back then, so why are you whining now?

we know its because its a democrat president, the question is do you really care or are you just complaining to complain?

i assume if you were passionate about the issue you would've complained regardless of the president.

the problem is you arnt passionate about the issue. you are passionate about throwing everything at the president and seeing if it'll stick, since you don't like him.

which is fine. do what you want.

just dont pretend that you care when you really dont.
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Old 07-27-2011, 07:19 PM
 
19 posts, read 13,507 times
Reputation: 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by CrownVic95 View Post
You are quite right about the treasonous job-killing ways of some multinationals and about the need for regulation of the financial industry, so those would be good comments in threads with those topics.

But this one is about an EPA gone mad....with a generous Presidential helping hand. What is it exactly that you think you are being protected from by a 54.5 mpg mandate?
Sorry about being in the wrong place, I don't normally do this kind of interaction. I was just in the mood today and I posted some stuff in 2010 so had already gone through the sign on stuff.

I find it a bit confusing. I post something and want to see the reply, but then the topic gets pushed somewhere else in the listing and I don't know how to get back to it. I am very unfamiliar with how these forums work.

Anyway, I truly believe that we need to be off of fossil fuels for a variety of reasons. I don't like what is happening with the climate, I don't like that we engage in war over oil and anything that helps us get off it is ok with me. I have a Volt and I love the 240 miles a gallon!
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Old 07-27-2011, 08:00 PM
 
Location: A safe distance from San Francisco
12,350 posts, read 9,675,074 times
Reputation: 13891
Quote:
Originally Posted by lnsutherland View Post
Sorry about being in the wrong place, I don't normally do this kind of interaction. I was just in the mood today and I posted some stuff in 2010 so had already gone through the sign on stuff.

I find it a bit confusing. I post something and want to see the reply, but then the topic gets pushed somewhere else in the listing and I don't know how to get back to it. I am very unfamiliar with how these forums work.

Anyway, I truly believe that we need to be off of fossil fuels for a variety of reasons. I don't like what is happening with the climate, I don't like that we engage in war over oil and anything that helps us get off it is ok with me. I have a Volt and I love the 240 miles a gallon!
Ok.......the lock-step ideological platform of the left as I expected.

Fact is fossil fuels made our country great and enabled modern civilization itself. Our learning to harness and utilize its energy has benefited our quality of life far more than anything else one could possibly conjecture. And there is not a shred of credible evidence that it has anything to do with the earth's always dynamic climate. It is a political agenda, my friend, transparent as glass.

You are probably a young person and probably have rarely ever heard a sentence containing oil without the word evil right alongside it. I understand. Continue to believe it all if you so choose, but understand that the sacrifice you've been taught to advocate is a 99% pain and 1% gain proposition.
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Old 07-27-2011, 08:34 PM
 
1,692 posts, read 1,956,030 times
Reputation: 1190
You know, I'm to the point where I don't post much around here because it's utterly pointless to talk to you guys. Completely ideologues, without one iota of sense.

The mandate is good for consumers, it's good to lessen our dependence on oil, it's good for the environment, and it's good for car companies who really need to be pushed towards these standards. Think they don't? Witness the SUV boom of the 2000s, which drove fuel standards downwards.


Quote:
Fact is fossil fuels made our country great and enabled modern civilization itself. Our learning to harness and utilize its energy has benefited our quality of life far more than anything else one could possibly conjecture. And there is not a shred of credible evidence that it has anything to do with the earth's always dynamic climate. It is a political agenda, my friend, transparent as glass.
Fact is that fossil fuels are a finite resource, and fact is that we're involved in two wars in the Middle East thanks to fossil fuels (directly or indirectly). Fact is that, even if you don't believe in climate change, there are tonnes of other environmental negatives to fossil fuel.

Penicillin also vastly improved health care, so if I'm following your logic, it was utterly pointless to develop antibiotics, or anything more advanced than penicillin.

What planet are you guys from?
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Old 07-27-2011, 08:45 PM
 
4,410 posts, read 6,130,012 times
Reputation: 2908
I support Obama on mandating more fuel efficient vehicles and have supported this for decades. I'm not losing any freedoms here, except the freedom to be stupid, wasteful, and, yes, here it comes, entitled. If you think driving an urban assault vehicle that gets 5mpg is an entitlement or a right worth preserving, your brain is missing. Look, you just ran over it.
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Old 07-27-2011, 08:47 PM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,052 posts, read 84,329,907 times
Reputation: 27718
Quote:
Originally Posted by mhouse2001 View Post
I support Obama on mandating more fuel efficient vehicles and have supported this for decades. I'm not losing any freedoms here, except the freedom to be stupid, wasteful, and, yes, here it comes, entitled. If you think driving an urban assault vehicle that gets 5mpg is an entitlement or a right worth preserving, your brain is missing. I think you just ran over it.
Not many folks have hummers which are the ones you post about.

Even a large pickup truck gets near 20mpg.
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Old 07-27-2011, 08:52 PM
 
4,410 posts, read 6,130,012 times
Reputation: 2908
Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyTexan View Post
Not many folks have hummers which are the ones you post about.

Even a large pickup truck gets near 20mpg.
Imagine if we had imposed stricter limits 20 years ago. That 20mpg truck would be getting 30 or more now. Imagine the improvement in the economy from not having to depend on all the foreign oil to fill those millions of pick-up trucks. And then imagine the sales of American-made fuel efficient vehicles here and abroad, for it could very easily have been American ingenuity that created engines that run on less fuel. Our carmakers complained about these fuel standards each and every time they were proposed and yet they managed to create trucks that get 20mpg in the interim.

My view is that the stewardship of this planet trumps all economic considerations. No other path is logical.
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Old 07-27-2011, 08:57 PM
 
Location: NW MT
1,436 posts, read 3,296,138 times
Reputation: 551
Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyTexan View Post
Not many folks have hummers which are the ones you post about.

Even a large pickup truck gets near 20mpg.
It's amazing how little many people know about vehicle efficiency period yet spout off about it in some manner like they know what they're talking about.... Makes them look stupid ! My F250 4x4, 4 dr, long bed, 6.0L diesel, lifted no less get almost 20 mpg highway.....
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Old 07-27-2011, 09:10 PM
 
Location: London, UK
158 posts, read 134,475 times
Reputation: 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by lifelongMOgal View Post
The market should dictate what cars companies manufacture and not the federal government. The federally subsidized GE Volt is largely a market failure.
It's a failure because we are not ready for electric cars and also because electric cars are NOT a long-term answer to the dependence on fossil fuels.

The market dictating everything has not turned out so well for health care and the environment, has it?

Free market and deregulation is nice but it's what got the USA into the mess they are in at the moment.

If anything, spending on R&D in the USA should increase the demand and hiring of skilled labor/employees like engineers (which the USA sorely miss as a lot of recent graduates have chosen the more financially-rewarding (but not value-adding) paths like law and finance).

If mankind had always relied on the market for innovation, we would not be where we are today. Technological innovation is not something that markets understand and captures very well.

PS: And before you label me as a socialist-communist-leftist-marxist, I am a fiscally conservative and working in Investment Banking.
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