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View Poll Results: Pro choice or pro life?
I am pro-life with children 79 18.12%
I am pro-life without children 69 15.83%
No opinion-don't care 18 4.13%
I am pro-choice with children 124 28.44%
I am pro-choice without children 146 33.49%
Voters: 436. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 06-29-2009, 09:26 AM
 
Location: Fort Worth Texas
12,481 posts, read 10,206,647 times
Reputation: 2536

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Quote:
Originally Posted by trmihall01 View Post
That is my point exactly. I agree with all of the above. We are people in the middle. The ones who can see both sides, but sadly that is not true for most. Take our friend mr wjtwet extremist as you can get, won't listen and refuses to admit there are other ways than his.
We have agreed on many points, better sex ed, free birth control, male birth control. We will not agree on the killing of the unborn

 
Old 06-29-2009, 09:28 AM
 
Location: Texas
14,975 posts, read 16,430,439 times
Reputation: 4586
Quote:
Originally Posted by Platinum333 View Post
I didn't say that they should be legal for any reason, I said that we can't possibly know, 100%, what the woman's reason is..and therefore, we cannot place restrictions.
What you fail to understand is that there ARE significant restrictions on third trimester abortions and, if the pro-choice side start seriously campaigning for no restrictions, it'll cause A LOT of people to switch to the other side.

Less than 20% of Americans want third trimester abortion legal without restrictions.
 
Old 06-29-2009, 09:30 AM
 
Location: Texas
14,975 posts, read 16,430,439 times
Reputation: 4586
Quote:
Originally Posted by Platinum333 View Post
Not when the woman is the victim of incest, rape, or domestic violence. It's also not like that if the woman has a medical roadblock (whether it be a risky situation or a dire one).
It's still disgusting, but I agree that abortion is an acceptable choice in these situations.
 
Old 06-29-2009, 09:41 AM
 
341 posts, read 450,852 times
Reputation: 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by afoigrokerkok View Post
It's still disgusting, but I agree that abortion is an acceptable choice in these situations.
Then you and I are alot more alike than you think.
 
Old 06-29-2009, 10:49 AM
 
Location: memphis tn
530 posts, read 649,026 times
Reputation: 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by wjtwet View Post
most kids who are in foster care are there on parent release of teenagers. There is no doubt there are many kids who are in foster care for years. The vast majority are teenagers whose parents released them to foster care.
only 25 percent of the kids in foster care are infants.

82 percent are adopted with in 23 months of entering
15 percent had been in care less than 1 month
34 percent had been in care for 1 to 11 months
23 percent had been in care for 12 to 23 months
12 percent had been in care for 24 to 35 months
9 percent had been in care for 36 to 59 months
7 percent had been in care for 5 or more years

Foster Care Statistics


Children in foster care live in a variety of placement settings and may move among or between settings while in care. For example, a child may move from a group home to a relative foster home.

Point in Time. The estimated 510,000 children in foster care on September 30, 2006, were in the following types of placements:
  • 46 percent in non relative foster family homes
  • 24 percent in relative foster homes
  • 10 percent in institutions
  • 7 percent in group homes
  • 3 percent in preadoptive homes
  • 5 percent on trial home visits (Situations in which the State retains supervision of a child and the child returns home on a trial basis, for an unspecified period of time, are considered a discharge from foster care after 6 months.)
  • 2 percent had run away
  • 1 percent in supervised independent living
Trends. Placement type on September 30 remained relatively unchanged between FY

Permanency Goals
The preferred goal for children in care is permanency with caring parents. Permanency goals refer to the goals for permanent placement that are reported to AFCARS.3

Point in Time. Of the estimated 510,000 children in foster care on September 30, 2006:
  • 49 percent had a goal of reunification with parent(s) or primary caregiver(s)
  • 23 percent had a goal of adoption
  • 8 percent had a goal of living with a relative or guardian
  • 9 percent had a goal of long-term foster care
  • 6 percent had a goal of emancipation
  • 6 percent had not yet had a permanency goal established
key numbers here
49% had a goal to reunite with parents. add 8 % of being with a relative or guardian.

These are only kids who are not adopted as infants that get into foster care at all.

So when you take in adoption agencies for infants their never be 800,000 abortions to be that will get to foster care. Those that do 82% are adopted with in 23 months
Only 23 % had a goal of adoption
You are using current numbers and forgetting to add another 800,000 children a yr to that number. Come on its simple addition and subtraction.
Add 800,000 new children a yr. find 800,000 new families to adopt a yr. You can't because they don't exist. If 23% of the current 600,000 will be adopted thats 138,000 adopted a yr so tell me how your going to adopt out another 800,000 plus a yr. Even if they are adopted later, the tax payers are still stuck with the bill for the birth and first 2 yrs or so of life. In twelve and a half yrs thats another billion people in this country alone. Where we gonna put them all?
 
Old 06-29-2009, 10:52 AM
 
Location: memphis tn
530 posts, read 649,026 times
Reputation: 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by afoigrokerkok View Post
I'm in the middle more than mr wtjwet is, so you have to give me some credit there.

I HATE abortion - it's an abhorrent act and is disgusting, IMO. That said, I would NEVER want it to be illegal in all cases. I also tend to favor keeping a safe, legal option with reasonable restrictions, as long as it's strongly discouraged, over having a situation where women give themselves dangerous abortions and, thus, kill both themselves and the fetus.
Thank you. Me too. But in my opinion this really makes you pro choice.
 
Old 06-29-2009, 10:55 AM
 
Location: Fort Worth Texas
12,481 posts, read 10,206,647 times
Reputation: 2536
Quote:
Originally Posted by trmihall01 View Post
Thank you. Me too. But in my opinion this really makes you pro choice.
You not supporting 3rd term abortions makes you pro life.
 
Old 06-29-2009, 10:56 AM
 
Location: memphis tn
530 posts, read 649,026 times
Reputation: 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by wjtwet View Post
I have been told several times to just live with to and shut up on this
thread

At what point does the argument for pro choice change. One moment it is a clump of cells that can be removed and that is not death. One moment it is a human in the third trimester you can not kill.

If the argument is that woman has every right to do with he body what she wants, then why is that argument not valid in the third trimester.

The argument is in the third trimester it is human and we should not kill it. Yet by not allowing abortion in the third trimester you are denying a woman the right to do what she wants with her body
My side believes it is a human the moment it conceives and implants itself.
that usually takes 4 - 5 days to fully implant. So I have no objection to the morning after pill.
pro choice says there should not be third trimester abortions because the unborn is a human, pro life believe s it is human once it implanted.
NO we say because at the point of the third trimester the fetus is viable outside the womans body. It is more or less fully developed and that except for medical reasons a woman could and should have already decided. I personally don't care either way. BUt that is why I could see the reasoning for restricting it.
 
Old 06-29-2009, 10:58 AM
 
Location: Fort Worth Texas
12,481 posts, read 10,206,647 times
Reputation: 2536
Quote:
Originally Posted by trmihall01 View Post
You are using current numbers and forgetting to add another 800,000 children a yr to that number. Come on its simple addition and subtraction.
Add 800,000 new children a yr. find 800,000 new families to adopt a yr. You can't because they don't exist. If 23% of the current 600,000 will be adopted thats 138,000 adopted a yr so tell me how your going to adopt out another 800,000 plus a yr. Even if they are adopted later, the tax payers are still stuck with the bill for the birth and first 2 yrs or so of life. In twelve and a half yrs thats another billion people in this country alone. Where we gonna put them all?
Once agian yoru claim of 800,000 going foster care is not correct. Her is an OP ed piece from my paper let me quote from it.
Graves: Abortion is a choice. So is adoption | Opinions | Star-Telegram.com (http://www.star-telegram.com/245/story/1458584.html - broken link)

The pews were crowded, and I took an aisle seat next to a young man with Down syndrome. He quickly extended a hand and introduced himself with a friendly grin.
I responded, and we had a brief conversation. He told me that he was a teacher at Texas Christian University.
"That must be interesting," I said. "What do you teach?"
"I am Down syndrome, and I teach children with Down’s."
He appeared to be in his early 20s. I noticed a couple sitting on his other side, apparently his parents.
"That is wonderful," I said, when really it was more than wonderful. It was exceptional.
What an extraordinary young man he was. I thought of Sarah Palin, who courageously refused to abort her unborn child when he was determined to have Down syndrome. Her courage certainly equals that of this enthusiastic and self-assured young man. What a tribute to his parents.



Some believe that an early pregnancy is only a matter of "tissue." However, in that "tissue" there is life and, if left alone, a tiny heartbeat. Five weeks into pregnancy, the heart is beating, possibly before the mother knows that she is pregnant.
 
Old 06-29-2009, 10:59 AM
 
Location: memphis tn
530 posts, read 649,026 times
Reputation: 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by wjtwet View Post
You not supporting 3rd term abortions makes you pro life.
i never said i didn't support them. I said i don't care either way. Then stated why the law and alot of pro- choicers are against them. Try reading all of my post not just picking out the things you want to argue with! You know what your right though, i would say we are all pro-life(no one wants to refuse all life), some with choices and some without.
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