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Old 05-20-2009, 11:42 AM
 
Location: NJ/NY
10,655 posts, read 18,663,385 times
Reputation: 2829

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miborn View Post
The Gov was already involved because they get Federal money!

In 2008, the Bush administration issued a rule that prohibited recipients of federal money from discriminating against doctors, nurses and health care aides who refuse to take part in medical procedures towhich they have religious or moral objections.

The rule implemented existing conscience protection laws that ensure medical professionals cannot be denied employment because they do not want to provide abortions.

Congressmen Challenge President Obama on Abortion-Conscience Clause Promise
Why on Earth would someone who is against abortion apply for a job at an Abortion Clinic, or at an OBGYN that performs abortions?
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Old 05-20-2009, 11:42 AM
 
Location: Phoenix, AZ
3,088 posts, read 5,355,355 times
Reputation: 1626
Pro choice does not mean pro abortion. Pro choice means, if you have a problem with abortion, don't get one, and don't tell others what choices to make! It is the Religious Right that has a problem! I know of NO Pro-choicers who would force abortion on anyone!
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Old 05-20-2009, 11:44 AM
 
4,183 posts, read 6,524,262 times
Reputation: 1734
Quote:
Originally Posted by Miborn View Post
Quote:
The Gov was already involved because they get Federal money!

In 2008, the Bush administration issued a rule that prohibited recipients of federal money from discriminating against doctors, nurses and health care aides who refuse to take part in medical procedures towhich they have religious or moral objections.

The rule implemented existing conscience protection laws that ensure medical professionals cannot be denied employment because they do not want to provide abortions.
Congressmen Challenge President Obama on Abortion-Conscience Clause Promise
Why would a doctor who opposes abortion ever apply for a job in an abortion clinic? Explain that.
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Old 05-20-2009, 11:49 AM
 
12,669 posts, read 20,447,035 times
Reputation: 3050
Obama Administration To Remove “Conscience” Clause for Doctors & Healthcare Prodivers




David Stevens, CEO of the Christian Medical Association, criticized the proposal.

“The move to rescind the healthcare provider conscience regulation imperils women’s healthcare access, threatens healthcare professionals’ freedom to practice medicine according to ethical standards, and exposes the myth of moderation in Obama’s abortion policy,” he said in a statement.

“The Obama administration claims, without offering a shred of statistical evidence, that the regulation has ‘created confusion’ and will somehow hinder access to healthcare. What can be clearer than not using federal funds to force healthcare professionals to violate longstanding principles of medical ethics like the Hippocratic Oath, which guided medicine for over two millennia? The real threat to healthcare access is driving out every healthcare professional who conscientiously practices medicine according to life-affirming ethical standards.”

Stevens also noted, “An informal survey of our members showed that over 40 percent report being pressured to violate ethical standards.
Physicians report losing positions and promotions because of their life-affirming views. Residents report losing training privileges because they refused to do abortions.
Medical students report changing career tracks away from obstetrics for fear of pressure to do abortions. The American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists has officially asserted that it expects every obstetrician to participate in abortions, either through procedure or referral.

“We hear a lot of rhetoric from abortion advocates about the government not interfering with the physician-patient relationship.
Why is this argument no longer employed when the physician and the patient disagree with abortion on demand?
It would appear that for all the abortion “choice” rhetoric, “choice” is really a one-way street. When it comes to pro-life individuals, abortion choice quickly turns into abortion mandate.

“President Obama and other abortion advocates would like to maintain the myth of their moderation on abortion, talking much about ‘reducing the need for abortion.’
Yet they have no tolerance for moderate abortion policies like informing parents when their children seek an abortion, banning the essentially infanticidal partial-birth abortions, or protecting the civil rights of healthcare professionals who follow the Hippocratic Oath.

» Obama Administration To Remove “Conscience” Clause for Doctors & Healthcare Prodivers (http://stoptheabortionagenda.com/http:/www.stoptheabortionagenda.com/obama-administration-to-remove-conscience-clause-for-doctors-healthcare-prodivers - broken link)
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Old 05-20-2009, 11:54 AM
 
9,763 posts, read 10,527,281 times
Reputation: 2052
Quote:
Originally Posted by cleanhouse View Post
Oh boy- we are screwed. Down with the individual- We are Americans and must adhere to the Moral standards of our supermoral American government.
Newsflash: Democratic republic != anarchy.

Laws in a democratic republic are enacted collectively, not individually.
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Old 05-20-2009, 11:55 AM
 
4,183 posts, read 6,524,262 times
Reputation: 1734
Quote:
Stevens also noted, “An informal survey of our members showed that over 40 percent report being pressured to violate ethical standards.
Physicians report losing positions and promotions because of their life-affirming views. Residents report losing training privileges because they refused to do abortions.
Medical students report changing career tracks away from obstetrics for fear of pressure to do abortions. The American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists has officially asserted that it expects every obstetrician to participate in abortions, either through procedure or referral.
That's just a bald assertion without basis in fact - no different than hearsay. Do yourself a favor: show us actual cases of physicians who "lost positions and promotions" because they refused to do abortions. Give us names, addresses, dates of occurrence, etc, instead of parroting assertions that you merely cut and pasted from elsewhere on the internet.

Last edited by ndfmnlf; 05-20-2009 at 12:11 PM..
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Old 05-20-2009, 11:57 AM
 
Location: NJ/NY
10,655 posts, read 18,663,385 times
Reputation: 2829
Links from "Stop the Abortion Agenda" and the "Christian Medical Association" do not hold water.

They do not even think doctors should have to REFER a patient out to another doctor who does provide services.

Please note the statements from the American Medical Association and the American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists do NOT back the conscience clause. They're a little more reputable than previous sources.
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Old 05-20-2009, 12:02 PM
 
12,669 posts, read 20,447,035 times
Reputation: 3050
Poll: Majority Of Americans Support Conscience Rights



By Susan Brinkmann, For The Bulletin

Friday, April 10, 2009
A new nationwide poll has found that 87 percent of adults believe healthcare professionals should not be forced to participate in procedures to which they have moral objections.

The new poll comes just as the Obama administration is expected to rescind new regulations by the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) that are aimed at curbing a growing crisis of abortion-related discrimination that could force thousands of health care professionals out of medicine. A public comment period on the matter ended April 9.

The poll, conducted by the polling company tm, Inc./WomanTrend on behalf of the Christian Medical Association (CMA), found majority support even among self-identified “pro-choice” respondents for the regulations now at risk of being rescinded.

The survey also exposed the need for the new regulations with 23 percent of respondents saying they experienced discrimination during medical school because of their moral/ethical beliefs. Thirty-two percent said they had experienced pressure to refer a patient for a procedure to which they morally objected and 26 percent were pressured to write a prescription to which they morally objected.


“But according to this new survey, the majority of Americans — whether ‘pro-life’ or ‘pro-choice’, male or female, Republican or Democratic—support the regulation and oppose its rescission.”


Poll: Majority Of Americans Support Conscience Rights - The Philadelphia Bulletin Archives (http://thebulletin.us/articles/2009/04/10/top_stories/doc49dec592e0bd2092108615.txt - broken link)
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Old 05-20-2009, 12:11 PM
 
12,669 posts, read 20,447,035 times
Reputation: 3050
Conscience Protection Update: What Might Happen Next and Why You Should Care



I can’t thank each of you enough for your response to my post about President Obama seeking to strip conscience protections for doctors, nurses, pharmacists and medical students. So many of you contacted Health and Human Services and also encouraged your family and friends to do the same.
It’s impossible to tell how many comments HHS received in support of protecting medical professionals’ moral and religious freedom. Individuals across the country submitted nearly 50,000 comments via Freedom2Care. More than 14,000 comments were also submitted via The Heritage Foundation’s project, ADoctorsRight.com. That doesn’t include all the comments that were submitted via postal mail, or those folks who sent emails through the United States Council of Catholic Bishops, who also ran a very successful campaign speaking out against Obama’s threat. (If you Google “conscience protection,” (http://tinyurl.com/pdyaye - broken link) the USCCB resource page is the first result listed. Impressive, huh?)


For example, the implications for Catholic hospitals alone if these protections are rescinded is epic. Pate says Catholic hospitals are in real danger if this goes through. In our phone interview, Pate reiterated what he’d written in recent post at The Next Right:
If these institutions’ conscience rights are not protected, they could be forced to shut their doors or reduce services. Undoubtedly, poor and rural patients served by these institutions will suffer the most in such a scenario.
Catholic hospitals make up an estimated 20-33 percent of major medical facilities nationwide. On top of the burden this will put on poor and rural patients, we can expect many of these hospitals to pop up for sale, representing a major shift in American medical care from nonprofit and community-oriented care to for profit institutions.




Conscience Protection Update: What Might Happen Next and Why You Should Care | CatherineFavazza.com
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Old 05-20-2009, 12:11 PM
 
Location: NJ/NY
10,655 posts, read 18,663,385 times
Reputation: 2829
Quote:
Originally Posted by Miborn View Post
Poll: Majority Of Americans Support Conscience Rights



By Susan Brinkmann, For The Bulletin

Friday, April 10, 2009
A new nationwide poll has found that 87 percent of adults believe healthcare professionals should not be forced to participate in procedures to which they have moral objections.

The new poll comes just as the Obama administration is expected to rescind new regulations by the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) that are aimed at curbing a growing crisis of abortion-related discrimination that could force thousands of health care professionals out of medicine. A public comment period on the matter ended April 9.

The poll, conducted by the polling company tm, Inc./WomanTrend on behalf of the Christian Medical Association (CMA), found majority support even among self-identified “pro-choice” respondents for the regulations now at risk of being rescinded.

The survey also exposed the need for the new regulations with 23 percent of respondents saying they experienced discrimination during medical school because of their moral/ethical beliefs. Thirty-two percent said they had experienced pressure to refer a patient for a procedure to which they morally objected and 26 percent were pressured to write a prescription to which they morally objected.


“But according to this new survey, the majority of Americans — whether ‘pro-life’ or ‘pro-choice’, male or female, Republican or Democratic—support the regulation and oppose its rescission.”


Poll: Majority Of Americans Support Conscience Rights - The Philadelphia Bulletin Archives (http://thebulletin.us/articles/2009/04/10/top_stories/doc49dec592e0bd2092108615.txt - broken link)
This poll was conducted by the "Christian Medical Association". How biased can you get?

It would be as if I quoted a poll from Planned Parenthood stating the opposite.

Try Again.
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