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OK, I just called KGTV 10News in San Diego (619) 237-6383
A Pastor has been holding weekly Bible study meetings at his complex. Around 15 people show up and take up other tenants parking spaces. Last week one of the Bible study people hit a tenant's car and the tenants filed a complaint. When the police came out, the Pastor told them he has these meetings weekly. The 'case' is going to the County Commissioners who will ultimately decide if a permit is required or not.
Oh man would I be STEAMED if I was those people whose parking spots were being stolen. This has happened to me I don't know how many times in previous apartments I lived in & let me tell you, I've called parking checkers on these people AND left nasty notes on their cars. There is nothing more irritating then assh**es who completely disregard the rules of parking in spots. I can totally understand why this would come to light.
The First Amendment, in part, reads, 'Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,'" Broyles said. "And that's the key part: 'prohibiting the free exercise.' We believe this is a substantial government burden on the free exercise of religion."
Home: No place for Bible study County demands pastor obtain $10,000 permit to host friends
A San Diego pastor and his wife claim they were interrogated by a county official and warned they will face escalating fines if they continue to hold Bible studies in their home.
The couple, whose names are being withheld until a demand letter can be filed on their behalf, told their attorney a county government employee knocked on their door on Good Friday, asking a litany of questions about their Tuesday night Bible studies, which are attended by approximately 15 people.
"Do you have a regular weekly meeting in your home? Do you sing? Do you say 'amen'?" the official reportedly asked. "Do you say, 'Praise the Lord'?"
The pastor's wife answered yes.
She says she was then told, however, that she must stop holding "religious assemblies" until she and her husband obtain a Major Use Permit from the county, a permit that often involves traffic and environmental studies, compliance with parking and sidewalk regulations and costs that top tens of thousands of dollars.
Ok, I admit I did not read all the reponses to this thread, the first couple were enough to see people did not think out the reason WHY the county says they need a request. When they have their meetings, which they should be, how many people and cars are showing up in the community. Parking can be a limited and people do have a right to park in front of their own homes. Just a thought. Come on folks not one was say they could not met, they are may be only say that the meetings are getting so large that they need a permit because of the number of vehicles clogging up the community. FYI, there are few counties in the USA that do not have such regulations, before you reply think what if this was another sort of meeting would you defend or condem it the same way?
Casper
Pastor and his attorney say it's about religion. County says it's about parking and 'impact on the neighborhood'. They met. No resolution. They're going to meet again June 9. Seems to me if that Bible study 'visitor' hadn't hit a neighbor's car, the Bible study would not have become an issue.
The state does not make a distinction between what you know as "bible study" versus actual church service. To them you are congregating and practicing religious activities. According to zoning law, religious activities must be conducted in/on a property that has been properly zoned for such activities; otherwise, you need a permit.
Some of you keep saying "But I hold Super Bowl parties all the time!!!" First of all, technically it's illegal to have Super Bowl parties with a substantial number of people not your family. This applies also to paid (PPV) programming. U.S. Copyright Office - Copyright Law: Chapter 1
Nobody's stopping you from having your service/study/whatever. But you need a permit. And you will pay for it.
I've already acknowledged that something else must have triggered the police visit. Parking is a viable suggestion; I know I'd definitely complain if there were no more parking on the street and a bunch of cars clogging things up. That doesn't change the fact that you need a permit. Again, like I said, just because it's not uniformly enforced, doesn't mean it shouldn't be enforced. It's the law. Love it or go where you can do whatever the hell you want. Philippines comes to mind.
You can't be serious. Just what constitutes a religious assembly? Some families have a daily bible study in their home. What if I am sick and my pastor comes over to my house to pray for me...does he need a permit? Are hospitals zoned for religious activity because it's very common for them to allow pastors, priests and clergy in to counsel/support patients. They often p-r-a-y, sometimes several people from a church will go and pray. Sometimes hospitals have clergy on staff to counsel and pray with people.
If a group of women come over to my house to plan for the VBS this summer....we are going to pray as part of this planning meeting, we might even mention the B-i-b-l-e. Do we need a permit? What if several of my neighbors are Christians and they come over to pray or do a Bible study...no parking issue...do we still need a permit? How about if our church group rents a pavillion at the park for our annual church picnic...do we need a special permit before we engage in religious activites by blessing the meal?
They could address the parking if that was the only issue. They give out tickets, tow cars and file reports so that any damage can be claimed through insurance....that's what they would do for a bridal shower, a tupperware party, a poker game, a super bowl party, birthday party or any other gathering. BUT, because this group is engaged in religious activity they must have a permit and be monitored by the government.
The county employee notified the couple that the small bible study, with an average of 15 people attending, was in violation of county regulations, according to Broyles.Broyles said a few days later the couple received a written warning that listed "unlawful use of land" and told them to "stop religious assembly or apply for a major use permit" -- a process that could cost tens of thousands of dollars.
This article is saying the exact same things I've been saying. Zoning law. The state is interpreting the law the way it sees fit. Whether or not it's "fair" is moot. Rhetoric about "Tupperware" and "poker" is moot. These chaps are making things harder on themselves. The easy answer: stop hosting bible study in the house, go to the church, do whatever you want. Or, be considerate to the neighbors, who it's clear complained about the parking situation which is what instigated this whole situation, and out of consideration for them, stop the gatherings. Either way, resolve it peacefully. Going to Fed court over this is silly when they have other choices they could entertain, they just refuse to. That's selfish of them and might I add, "ungodly".
This article is saying the exact same things I've been saying. Zoning law. The state is interpreting the law the way it sees fit. Whether or not it's "fair" is moot. Rhetoric about "Tupperware" and "poker" is moot. These chaps are making things harder on themselves. The easy answer: stop hosting bible study in the house, go to the church, do whatever you want. Or, be considerate to the neighbors, who it's clear complained about the parking situation which is what instigated this whole situation, and out of consideration for them, stop the gatherings. Either way, resolve it peacefully. Going to Fed court over this is silly when they have other choices they could entertain, they just refuse to. That's selfish of them and might I add, "ungodly".
I'm inclined to agree that there are other ways to solve this. I can't see why people couldn't meet at a public parking place and carpool to the pastor's home, thus greatly reducing the number of cars to maybe 3 or 4. If there is a church building to hold meetings, then it makes sense to go there. Comparing these gatherings to Tupperware parties and such is comparing apples and organges. These parties don't usually take place at the same location, nor do they happen at one place regularly every week. These folks also could rotate between members' homes.
The result might be building good will with the neighbors through a good witness to the faith.
Why aren't people reading? Are they not teaching basic reading comprehension anymore???
What is that great quote from Stephen Colbert (said about Pres. Bush, but it works here)?
Oh, yes:
"He believes the same thing Wednesday that he believed on Monday, no matter what happened Tuesday. Events can change; this man's beliefs never will."
I agree, it's extremely frustrating when the carpet doesn't pick up. If it can pick up dog hair, cookie crumbs, dust bunnies, etc., why the heck can't it pick up the darned phone!!!
You can't be serious. Just what constitutes a religious assembly? Some families have a daily bible study in their home. What if I am sick and my pastor comes over to my house to pray for me...does he need a permit? Are hospitals zoned for religious activity because it's very common for them to allow pastors, priests and clergy in to counsel/support patients. They often p-r-a-y, sometimes several people from a church will go and pray. Sometimes hospitals have clergy on staff to counsel and pray with people.
If a group of women come over to my house to plan for the VBS this summer....we are going to pray as part of this planning meeting, we might even mention the B-i-b-l-e. Do we need a permit? What if several of my neighbors are Christians and they come over to pray or do a Bible study...no parking issue...do we still need a permit? How about if our church group rents a pavilion at the park for our annual church picnic...do we need a special permit before we engage in religious activities by blessing the meal?
They could address the parking if that was the only issue. They give out tickets, tow cars and file reports so that any damage can be claimed through insurance....that's what they would do for a bridal shower, a tupperware party, a poker game, a super bowl party, birthday party or any other gathering. BUT, because this group is engaged in religious activity they must have a permit and be monitored by the government.
BINGO!!!
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