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Liberty and justice for all was NEVER intended to cover everyone. Not women, not blacks (slaves) and not people who didn't own land. The churches that marry gay people are not following the word of God so that's why I say it's sad. You can create a church that fits whatever need you have but that doesn't make it legitimate. However, the majority of people in this country oppose gay marriage and will continue (rightfully) to treat gays as second class citizens and deny them the ability to marry because they simply are NOT equal.
Obviously there are churches that will marry gay people but thank you anyway for stating the obvious. And, yes, you can obviously belong to any church you want (again, thanks for pointing out the obvious). My point is that these churches are following their own lead and not following the word of God. It's a pretend church at best and holds no real meaning.
Now tell me where it says in the bible that we aren't supposed to take it literally. You're making an interpretation that may or may not be correct but nobody knows for sure.
When all 33,000 plus sects of Christianity can agree on an interpretation of the bible and how they should live by it then maybe, just MAYBE believing in 'god' wold hold more ground to me. As of right now, people of the same damn religion can't even agree on beliefs!
Anyway,
I've been with the ole boyfriend for going on 7 years, not married yet, and we won't be married until all consenting adults have the same opportunity.
YOU are not the final word on this, even though you apparently think you should be. You opinion is worth no more than mine.
Personally, I am not the final word on this....on that we can agree. However, I've got over 50% of the voting Californians on my side as well as 6 out of the 7 CA Supreme Court justices. So it's the opinion of the majority that matters and that's what group I'm part of.
Personally, I am not the final word on this....on that we can agree. However, I've got over 50% of the voting Californians on my side as well as 6 out of the 7 CA Supreme Court justices. So it's the opinion of the majority that matters and that's what group I'm part of.
Actually, the California Supreme Court justices only said that Prop. 8 was legal; it wasn't a judgment on same-sex marriage. As you know, four of them voted to make same-sex marriage legal last year. That's a better reflection of how they feel about the issue.
Personally, I am not the final word on this....on that we can agree. However, I've got over 50% of the voting Californians on my side as well as 6 out of the 7 CA Supreme Court justices. So it's the opinion of the majority that matters and that's what group I'm part of.
Just remember 'the majority' is always transient. It changes - it has in the past - it will in the future. I notice you still haven't responded to the whole bible thing and bible relevancy to a society.
YOU are not the final word on this, even though you apparently think you should be. You opinion is worth no more than mine.
You're showing your ignorance here. Separation of Church and State? You clearly don't even know what that is. The only thing the Constitution says about this is in the 1st amendment where it says people have the right to choose whichever religion they want. That's it.
That's also a silly point you made about me wanting to return to slavery. You should really learn how to have educated discussion before putting your random thoughts into words. My point was to say that when say it wasn't the founding father's orginal intent to discrimintate against people that this simply isn't true. It was always the intent to all the majority to discriminate against the minority.
I have explained why gays are not equal but you're just not listening. I'll spell it out for you.....gays are not equal in the eyes of God or in His words as written in the Bible. This thread is not meant to be a Bible study class so I won't (but easily could) point out many verses that are clearly against homosexuality. The most obvious are the references to sodomy as a sin.....no gettin' around that one. Homosexuality is not normal, it's not right and homosexuals do not deserve the same rights as non-gays. Especially when it comes to marriage.
I have explained why gays are not equal but you're just not listening. I'll spell it out for you.....gays are not equal in the eyes of God or in His words as written in the Bible. This thread is not meant to be a Bible study class so I won't (but easily could) point out many verses that are clearly against homosexuality. The most obvious are the references to sodomy as a sin.....no gettin' around that one. Homosexuality is not normal, it's not right and homosexuals do not deserve the same rights as non-gays. Especially when it comes to marriage.
So let me get this straight, you follow every single verse written in the bible? You find there is NOTHING contradictory and that this book as a whole is a realistic and practical tool to live in society? I mean seriously, if you followed it verse for verse word for word - wouldn't ALL of us be second and third class citizens in the eyes of god. Should we just pack it in and give up on society because we can't get over the urge not to judge everyone for every little thing? Everyone would be an endless critic and paralyzed to the point of complete and total disfunction.
More people in this world do not follow the bible than those who do and they can probably lay claim as equally as you can that their religions conveys 'the word of god'
SO FOR ALL OF THESE REASONS
I'm sorry but it is absolutely clear to me, that a nation must make a disconnect with this type of nonsense in order to work!
1. This thread is about how long each of us has been married. Please don't spoil it with your hatefulness.
2. As for the underlined, no one is demanding that your church or any other perform same sex marriages. Just that you keep your noses out of other peoples business.
The subject of this thread centered around how long someone has been married to their 'partners'. Gay and straight people were asked to 'chime in' so that's what I'm doing. The subject is based around gay marriage and I have comments on that subject.
Your post didn't do anything to contribute to the discussion at all so maybe it's you that shouldn't have posted.
I don't have to keep my nose out of other people's business. The majority can always vote to discriminate against a minority group whether you like it or not. In the case of Prop 8 in CA the majority of voters voted to discriminate against gays and now allow them to legally marry. It was just recently backed up by the CA Supreme Court so even they realize it's their job to get in everyone else's business.
So let me get this straight, you follow every single verse written in the bible? You find there is NOTHING contradictory and that this book as a whole is a realistic and practical tool to live in society? I mean seriously, if you followed it verse for verse word for word - wouldn't ALL of us be second and third class citizens in the eyes of god. Should we just pack it in and give up on society because we can't get over the urge not to judge everyone for every little thing? Everyone would be an endless critic and paralyzed to the point of complete and total disfunction.
More people in this world do not follow the bible than those who do and they can probably lay claim as equally as you can that their religions conveys 'the word of god'
SO FOR ALL OF THESE REASONS
I'm sorry but it is absolutely clear to me, that a nation must make a disconnect with this type of nonsense in order to work!
The reason why this country seems off track and 'isn't working' sometimes is because people fail to follow the word of God so you have it completely backwards (again).
Did I ever say there's nothing contradictory about the Bible??? No, I haven't because since the Bible was originally written in Aramaic and has been translated numerous times (and therefore interpreted differently just as many times) there's no true way to find the REAL meaning of God but it's our job to do our best at interpreting it. Do you really think that it was God's intent to have a man marry another man and perform sexual acts on each other? Impossible. Man and woman are natural and they can create life together....no matter what you believe in it's clear to see that this was the original intent of whatever 'creator' you might believe in.
The reason why this country seems off track and 'isn't working' sometimes is because people fail to follow the word of God so you have it completely backwards (again).
Did I ever say there's nothing contradictory about the Bible??? No, I haven't because since the Bible was originally written in Aramaic and has been translated numerous times (and therefore interpreted differently just as many times) there's no true way to find the REAL meaning of God but it's our job to do our best at interpreting it. Do you really think that it was God's intent to have a man marry another man and perform sexual acts on each other? Impossible. Man and woman are natural and they can create life together....no matter what you believe in it's clear to see that this was the original intent of whatever 'creator' you might believe in.
The problem with this logic is it is subjective interpretation of the bible based on personal inclinations. Far better to leave it as a personal way of life than to base a society and its laws upon it. There are many nations in the world who have made a very strong seperation from religion in their laws and these countries are doing fine and in many ways these countries have the most content citizens in the world and are solidly stable democracies
You choose homosexuality as a means to be oppressive to a group by treating them like second class citizens, but there are many groups within the bible that would also have to rc'v such treatment with your logic and I don't know why you are not taking an objective stance. I think if you were objective, you would realize that your judgements would serve to paralyze a society and we would be - literally propelled back into the stone age.
In my heart, I know god loves m/m and f/f sex because i'm gay. Did you ever think - what if i'm wrong? I don't have to ask myself that question, because i'm not oppressive and engaging in selective interpretation based on personal inclination.
Just remember 'the majority' is always transient. It changes - it has in the past - it will in the future. I notice you still haven't responded to the whole bible thing and bible relevancy to a society.
Ok, you want to hear bible facts? Let me know what you'd like to hear. Where does it say in the bible that god is against homosexuals? Or is is something else you'd like to have quoted....I'm well versed in this subject so can provide any relevant bible info that you'd like from many different versions of the bible.
More importantly I have a challenge for you. Please show me anywhere in the bible where God says he pro-homosxuality. Find any verse that shows God is in favor of gay marriage. Don't just come back and say something like 'god loves everyone equally' but specifically show me where He is in favor of homesexuality.
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