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Old 05-30-2009, 11:01 PM
 
Location: New York, New York
4,861 posts, read 6,469,155 times
Reputation: 1031

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greatday View Post
It is the governments fault the economy is in the shape it is in - if the government had stayed out of it - things would be fine
Yep Bush did a horrible job..I agree.

Look at all the categories. The only one that excelled was corporate profits. More proof that tax cuts are not the answer.
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Old 05-31-2009, 12:02 AM
 
13,056 posts, read 12,257,840 times
Reputation: 2612
Quote:
Originally Posted by geeoro View Post
I have relatives in Canada who love the Health System there. My Aunt had Cervical Cancer and was treated straight away in Canada. She is completely cured.
If you want to quote a friend who was diagnosed with cancer and given the latest drugs then also quote the millions who cannot afford cancer tratment and of whom, many die, because of the terrible Elitist health system in America
Why can't they afford it? I paid 240 bucks a month for my wife and I and it was PPO, self tailored, had experimental drug treatment and suited us fine. My wife worked in the industry for over 6 years and the absolute worst portion of the system was the government claims. It won't work, it will be mismanaged, corrupted, and people will be abused. The difference is that in your system, people wont have a choice. They will be forced to suck at the tit of a bureaucratic system that has no place in private industry. Misery loves company though. Can't have responsible people out there planning appropriately, nope... everyone has to suffer equally to be fair! Pure garbage.
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Old 05-31-2009, 12:09 AM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
90,373 posts, read 112,292,198 times
Reputation: 35920
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nomander View Post
Why can't they afford it? I paid 240 bucks a month for my wife and I and it was PPO, self tailored, had experimental drug treatment and suited us fine. My wife worked in the industry for over 6 years and the absolute worst portion of the system was the government claims. It won't work, it will be mismanaged, corrupted, and people will be abused. The difference is that in your system, people wont have a choice. They will be forced to suck at the tit of a bureaucratic system that has no place in private industry. Misery loves company though. Can't have responsible people out there planning appropriately, nope... everyone has to suffer equally to be fair! Pure garbage.
I responded to you about this on another thread, or maybe earlier in this thread. Your self-designed plan may backfire on you if you get some illness you didn't think about.
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Old 05-31-2009, 02:38 AM
 
Location: London UK & Florida USA
7,923 posts, read 8,373,615 times
Reputation: 2053
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nomander View Post
Why can't they afford it? I paid 240 bucks a month for my wife and I and it was PPO, self tailored, had experimental drug treatment and suited us fine. My wife worked in the industry for over 6 years and the absolute worst portion of the system was the government claims. It won't work, it will be mismanaged, corrupted, and people will be abused. The difference is that in your system, people wont have a choice. They will be forced to suck at the tit of a bureaucratic system that has no place in private industry. Misery loves company though. Can't have responsible people out there planning appropriately, nope... everyone has to suffer equally to be fair! Pure garbage.
A great saying for those on here who decry a UHC is " No one is as blind as those who refuse to see". I will try one more time to explain what a UHC is like for the user.
1) The Govt. does NOT decide on your treatment, drug regime or any aspect of your actual health needs. Your Doctor decides what tests you need and what drugs you are given. Horror stories about the Govt taking control of how you are treated is absolute rubbish. The Govt.lays down guidlines for the health service to follow and also makes sure that standards are met for the benefit of the patient. You have more choices than in Private health schemes. You can use any NHS Hospital or Doctor that you want and your GP can refer you for second opinions to whoever you want to see.Private health companies decide what you are covered for and what you are allowed to get on a purely financial basis.Less choices as to who you can see and the cost is much much higher than a UHC. You CAN be turned down for treatment in a private health plan. You CANNOT be turned down in a UHC.
2) Every single citizen in the United States is covered for good full health care in a UHC. Only specified patients are covered for treatment in a private health plan and you have restrictions. A UHC keeps private health premiums extremely low as the Private companies no longer have the monopoly on your health care so you can easily afford the top private cover and a UHC for much less to pay than you pay now just for private health. This rubbish about "i'm not paying for other people in a UHC " is absurd. You pay for other people with your Private premiums as they are adjusted to compensate for people who use their health plans a lot so in fact if you hardly use your plan you are paying through the nose for people who use it a lot.
3) UHC Hopsitals are modern, up to date and well equiped. You are not excluded from any new drugs and if you have a Chronic illness eg. Diabetes, ALL your drugs are free, including syringes, testing kits etc. In fact any drugs whether for Diabetes or not are free, even things like Viagra as Diabetes can affect libido, ALL free. You can even take part in clinical trials for new regimes or breakthrough drugs on a UHC.

The Govt.has the capital and ability to make sure that your health is treated on your health needs and not on your CEO's desire to get rich.
Health dictates your health care in a UHC and not your wallet as in a private health scheme.
The USA has one of the most expensive health schemes in the world with a higher mortality rate than the UK.
I know change is scary but the American health care system as it is cannot carry on. It is like many of the huge corporations in America...under immense pressure and not working properly.
If you like being dictated to by a CEO then keep your expensive health system. If you want health care dictated by your health needs then get a UHC and get it now. Only a fool would pay much much more for a inferior product but you do whenever you pay your premiums to the "get rich" private health companies. If you think they care about your health....THINK AGAIN!
These are the Facts about a UHC from someone who has actually used BOTH systems and not hearsay from a "Friend" or someone whom has healthcare in the USA and will be damned before they let everyone have health care.
Please don't use Medicare etc as an example of a Govt run health scheme as Medicare etc are half hearted attempts at a UHC and cannot compare to a fully funded UHC.

Last edited by geeoro; 05-31-2009 at 02:50 AM..
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Old 05-31-2009, 06:28 AM
 
Location: Gone
25,230 posts, read 15,696,276 times
Reputation: 5921
Quote:
Originally Posted by JennySquirrel View Post
Everyone of us knows of the abuse of Welfare. Generation after generation on the "card". Have another baby to get more money. Sneak over the border and you will be covered. I personally have turned people in and they were never even contacted! This IS one of the main reasons we are in such bad shape economically.

With that said, why doesn't Obama and his goons target Welfare and clean that up. Investigate fraud, start work programs and "escort" those people who can, back to work. Get them off the system and not encourage people to get on the system.

I think no matter which "team" you cheer for, you would have to agree that this would cut our budget and help stop the out of control flow of money to people who could be working.

Focus on this and leave my health care alone. Each of us are already paying $1,000 a year to cover people who don't have insurance and now Obama wants to rip it all apart and turn the health care field upside down to insure even more people.

Fine, but fix welfare BEFORE you start to mess with the working people's insurance who are already paying.
While I do agree 100% that welfare needs to be fixed so that only those that truely need it get it, I am at a loss what it is that you are saying when you mention healthcare. Obama does NOT want National Healthcare, he wants people to have access to Affordable Insurance, BIG difference. I find it very interesting that the Insurance industry has gone to Obama and suggested that if he would be willing to drop his Insurance idea that they would now be willing to lower their rates to more affordable levels and cover pre-existing health conditions.
Casper
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Old 05-31-2009, 08:34 AM
 
Location: NYC
486 posts, read 929,619 times
Reputation: 306
Quote:
Originally Posted by geeoro View Post
A great saying for those on here who decry a UHC is " No one is as blind as those who refuse to see". I will try one more time to explain what a UHC is like for the user.
1) The Govt. does NOT decide on your treatment, drug regime or any aspect of your actual health needs. Your Doctor decides what tests you need and what drugs you are given. Horror stories about the Govt taking control of how you are treated is absolute rubbish. The Govt.lays down guidlines for the health service to follow and also makes sure that standards are met for the benefit of the patient. You have more choices than in Private health schemes. You can use any NHS Hospital or Doctor that you want and your GP can refer you for second opinions to whoever you want to see.Private health companies decide what you are covered for and what you are allowed to get on a purely financial basis.Less choices as to who you can see and the cost is much much higher than a UHC. You CAN be turned down for treatment in a private health plan. You CANNOT be turned down in a UHC.
2) Every single citizen in the United States is covered for good full health care in a UHC. Only specified patients are covered for treatment in a private health plan and you have restrictions. A UHC keeps private health premiums extremely low as the Private companies no longer have the monopoly on your health care so you can easily afford the top private cover and a UHC for much less to pay than you pay now just for private health. This rubbish about "i'm not paying for other people in a UHC " is absurd. You pay for other people with your Private premiums as they are adjusted to compensate for people who use their health plans a lot so in fact if you hardly use your plan you are paying through the nose for people who use it a lot.
3) UHC Hopsitals are modern, up to date and well equiped. You are not excluded from any new drugs and if you have a Chronic illness eg. Diabetes, ALL your drugs are free, including syringes, testing kits etc. In fact any drugs whether for Diabetes or not are free, even things like Viagra as Diabetes can affect libido, ALL free. You can even take part in clinical trials for new regimes or breakthrough drugs on a UHC.

The Govt.has the capital and ability to make sure that your health is treated on your health needs and not on your CEO's desire to get rich.
Health dictates your health care in a UHC and not your wallet as in a private health scheme.
The USA has one of the most expensive health schemes in the world with a higher mortality rate than the UK.
I know change is scary but the American health care system as it is cannot carry on. It is like many of the huge corporations in America...under immense pressure and not working properly.
If you like being dictated to by a CEO then keep your expensive health system. If you want health care dictated by your health needs then get a UHC and get it now. Only a fool would pay much much more for a inferior product but you do whenever you pay your premiums to the "get rich" private health companies. If you think they care about your health....THINK AGAIN!
These are the Facts about a UHC from someone who has actually used BOTH systems and not hearsay from a "Friend" or someone whom has healthcare in the USA and will be damned before they let everyone have health care.
Please don't use Medicare etc as an example of a Govt run health scheme as Medicare etc are half hearted attempts at a UHC and cannot compare to a fully funded UHC.
Thanks for posting this. Is good to hear exactly how UHC works FROM SOMONE WHO HAS USED IT as oppose to hearing all the nonsense from others who have no idea what they're talking about.
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Old 05-31-2009, 09:14 AM
 
13,056 posts, read 12,257,840 times
Reputation: 2612
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
I responded to you about this on another thread, or maybe earlier in this thread. Your self-designed plan may backfire on you if you get some illness you didn't think about.
The cost drops are associated with removing pointless bloated cosmetic and other similar protections that essentially attempt to force the insurance company to pay for every single little cost. Remove all those and the risk associate with their coverage is reduced to emergency injury and serious illness covering the expenses that are related to them.

I pay for my normal visits out of pocket and many other smaller manageable things. I keep a reserve of money just for this situation. I pay a default of expense for most things up to a point and then the insurance takes over. It isn't reasonable to expect an insurance company to cover every single cost on every single issue as then there is no benefit to them. They get paid in good times using the "chance" that you will not cash in on the policy. If you want it all paid, all times and for everything? Well then really you end up paying for it anyway with bloated insurance.

If my poor planning catches me unprepared, then that is on me. Not society to pick up the bill.
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Old 05-31-2009, 09:22 AM
 
13,056 posts, read 12,257,840 times
Reputation: 2612
Quote:
Originally Posted by geeoro View Post
A great saying for those on here who decry a UHC is " No one is as blind as those who refuse to see". I will try one more time to explain what a UHC is like for the user.
1) The Govt. does NOT decide on your treatment, drug regime or any aspect of your actual health needs. Your Doctor decides what tests you need and what drugs you are given. Horror stories about the Govt taking control of how you are treated is absolute rubbish. The Govt.lays down guidlines for the health service to follow and also makes sure that standards are met for the benefit of the patient. You have more choices than in Private health schemes. You can use any NHS Hospital or Doctor that you want and your GP can refer you for second opinions to whoever you want to see.Private health companies decide what you are covered for and what you are allowed to get on a purely financial basis.Less choices as to who you can see and the cost is much much higher than a UHC. You CAN be turned down for treatment in a private health plan. You CANNOT be turned down in a UHC.
2) Every single citizen in the United States is covered for good full health care in a UHC. Only specified patients are covered for treatment in a private health plan and you have restrictions. A UHC keeps private health premiums extremely low as the Private companies no longer have the monopoly on your health care so you can easily afford the top private cover and a UHC for much less to pay than you pay now just for private health. This rubbish about "i'm not paying for other people in a UHC " is absurd. You pay for other people with your Private premiums as they are adjusted to compensate for people who use their health plans a lot so in fact if you hardly use your plan you are paying through the nose for people who use it a lot.
3) UHC Hopsitals are modern, up to date and well equiped. You are not excluded from any new drugs and if you have a Chronic illness eg. Diabetes, ALL your drugs are free, including syringes, testing kits etc. In fact any drugs whether for Diabetes or not are free, even things like Viagra as Diabetes can affect libido, ALL free. You can even take part in clinical trials for new regimes or breakthrough drugs on a UHC.

The Govt.has the capital and ability to make sure that your health is treated on your health needs and not on your CEO's desire to get rich.
Health dictates your health care in a UHC and not your wallet as in a private health scheme.
The USA has one of the most expensive health schemes in the world with a higher mortality rate than the UK.
I know change is scary but the American health care system as it is cannot carry on. It is like many of the huge corporations in America...under immense pressure and not working properly.
If you like being dictated to by a CEO then keep your expensive health system. If you want health care dictated by your health needs then get a UHC and get it now. Only a fool would pay much much more for a inferior product but you do whenever you pay your premiums to the "get rich" private health companies. If you think they care about your health....THINK AGAIN!
These are the Facts about a UHC from someone who has actually used BOTH systems and not hearsay from a "Friend" or someone whom has healthcare in the USA and will be damned before they let everyone have health care.
Please don't use Medicare etc as an example of a Govt run health scheme as Medicare etc are half hearted attempts at a UHC and cannot compare to a fully funded UHC.
The direct experience of my wife working with both the government side of health care and the private industry conflicts with your claims. In each case, the government plans were guilty of doing all the things you attempt to blame on "evil private business". While it does happen, the governments handling of claims has a terrible track record and is consistently abusive in these situations. My wife has had to deny medical benefits to someone far more times through government plans than that of private. Sorry, you are wrong. /shrug
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Old 05-31-2009, 09:23 AM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
90,373 posts, read 112,292,198 times
Reputation: 35920
The cost drops are associated with removing pointless bloated cosmetic and other similar protections that essentially attempt to force the insurance company to pay for every single little cost. Remove all those and the risk associate with their coverage is reduced to emergency injury and serious illness covering the expenses that are related to them.

LOL! Few if any insurance pays for strictly cosmetic surgery. What you eliminated is plastic surgery in case you're in an accident. Unless your emergency fund is huge, you're not going to be able to cover that! That is just one example.
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Old 05-31-2009, 09:37 AM
 
Location: London UK & Florida USA
7,923 posts, read 8,373,615 times
Reputation: 2053
Quote:
Originally Posted by gf1025 View Post
Thanks for posting this. Is good to hear exactly how UHC works FROM SOMONE WHO HAS USED IT as oppose to hearing all the nonsense from others who have no idea what they're talking about.
Thanks for your post.
No system is perfect. I was just watching Fox and a young lady was saying how people come to America from Canada to America for treatment because they were denied treatment in Canada and she says they would have died waiting 6 months for cancer treatment. If this story is true why didn't they just pay privately in Canada for treatment instead of coming all the way to America? In the UK if you present with anything that may be cancer you are fast tracked into the Hospital and your tests and treatment are immediate. If you have a braib tumour in America and you have NO health insurance you don't even have six month waiting time..you just die. I have relativs in Canada and they have had no problems geting treatment.
A lot of the stories put around about how you will have to change your Doctor are Stupid..is he not going to practice Medicine anymore? Does he practice in another state..obviously not... so why are you going to change your Doctor? You can keep your exiting private health cover ..so again, for those who love their private cover..Why are you going to lose your Doctor?
I am in the UK for the Summer. I went to my Diabetic clinic last week for a check up and blood tests. NO waiting. NOTHING to pay and great Doctors and nurses there. Can EVERYONE do that in the American System....NO WAY.
I'm afraid i see so much garbage and outright lies on here about a UHC and unfortunately people believe it. I am telling you from experience that a UHC gives great healthcare to EVERY singlr American citizen without the restrictions and co-pay that you get with private health in America.
To everyone who comes on here with their extremely limited knowledge of how a UHC is run...stop trying to convince people that you know what you are talking about..you quite simply do not.
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