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Old 05-29-2009, 01:05 PM
 
9,742 posts, read 9,973,069 times
Reputation: 2051

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Quote:
Originally Posted by JennySquirrel View Post
Everyone of us knows of the abuse of Welfare. Generation after generation on the "card". Have another baby to get more money. Sneak over the border and you will be covered. I personally have turned people in and they were never even contacted! This IS one of the main reasons we are in such bad shape economically.
Good. I expect you can provide data to support your claim?

Everywhere I've looked shows total (state and federal) welfare spending to be between one and two percent of budget. I do not think two percent has the effect on the economy you claim it does.

*awaits new thread claiming tort reform as key to curbing healthcare costs*
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Old 05-29-2009, 01:09 PM
 
519 posts, read 646,172 times
Reputation: 153
Lets first get back to the basics:

1) The human condition dictates that not everyone will be healthy all the time
2) Capitalism has provided a medical industry that provides doctors of every speciality possible to take care of the unhealthy.

So, somone one please remind me why it is our governments responsibility to provide a universal healthcare system. Healthcare should be left up to the individual. The only healthcare related entitlements should go to the elderly, terminally ill, and children. The poor already have healthcare insurance as well (although the ultimate goal is to take them out of poverty). All the working folks should have to fend for themselves. If that means no more latte's, so be it. If that means a Honda instead of a Mercedes. So be it. No one promised that life would be fair. The nation shouldn't have to go down the tubes financially because of it. This entitlement mentality has got to end.

Here is a little proof of why our government can't be trusted to do simple math, much less admnister a universal health care program:

When Medicare was debated in 1965 (the year it was signed into law), business and taxpayer groups were concerned that program expenditures might grow out of control. However, single-payer advocates assured them that all seniors could easily be covered under Medicare with only a small increase in workers' payroll taxes. The federal government's lead actuary in 1965 projected that the hospital program (Medicare Part A) would grow to only $9 billion by 1990. The program ended up costing more than $66 billion that year.

http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=3057

Do you really trust government that much? I don't. The proof is in the pudding.

Last edited by Johnny B. Fury; 05-29-2009 at 01:24 PM..
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Old 05-29-2009, 01:09 PM
 
13,180 posts, read 14,092,021 times
Reputation: 4547
Quote:
Originally Posted by nvxplorer View Post
Good. I expect you can provide data to support your claim?

Everywhere I've looked shows total (state and federal) welfare spending to be between one and two percent of budget. I do not think two percent has the effect on the economy you claim it does.

*awaits new thread claiming tort reform as key to curbing healthcare costs*
Don't hold your breadth. This OP is known for rattling off some right wing myth she obtained from AM radio or worldnet daily then coming here to spread it. She doesn't bother with objective data to back up her claims. If the propaganda reinforces her ideology she just runs with it.
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Old 05-29-2009, 01:12 PM
 
Location: um....guess
10,483 posts, read 14,696,306 times
Reputation: 1833
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny B. Fury View Post

So, somone one please remind me why it is our governments responsibility to provide a national healthcare system.
Because it is a basic right to have healthcare & to be healthy. That's hard for you to understand apparently. And skipping a latte won't make much of a dent in someone's insurance bill now will it? Geez, come up w/something more relatable please, that was ridiculous.
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Old 05-29-2009, 01:13 PM
 
13,180 posts, read 14,092,021 times
Reputation: 4547
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny B. Fury View Post
Lets first get back to the basics:

1) The human condition dictates that not everyone will be healthy all the time
2) Capitalism has provided a medical industry that provides doctors of every speciality possible to take care of the unhealthy.

So, somone one please remind me why it is our governments responsibility to provide a national healthcare system. Healthcare should be left up to the individual. The only healthcare related entitlements should go to the elderly, terminally ill, and children. All the working folks should have to fend for themselves. If that means one less latte', so be it. If that means a Honda instead of a Mercedes. So be it. I'm not on the national healthcare bandwagon. I pay for my insurance, why can't you?

For the same damn reason we provide a free public education for everyone.....because it's the ethical/human thing to do....Ebenezer Scrooge.

If you don't like it ...get together with your other greedy %$#@les and go win an election.
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Old 05-29-2009, 01:13 PM
 
9,742 posts, read 9,973,069 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by southward bound View Post
It may be "cheaper" but it won't give us a good return on our money. It has been said that the bitter after taste of cheap lasts far longer than the initial sweet taste of cheap.
I like bitter. I'll take a Killian's Red over a Bud any day of the week.

Perhaps you would support your rhetoric with facts? Are people dying because of substandard care in countries with UHC?
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Old 05-29-2009, 01:17 PM
 
Location: Here
11,547 posts, read 13,057,005 times
Reputation: 6852
Quote:
Originally Posted by karfar View Post
Because it is a basic right to have healthcare & to be healthy. That's hard for you to understand apparently. And skipping a latte won't make much of a dent in someone's insurance bill now will it? Geez, come up w/something more relatable please, that was ridiculous.
Just how is it a basic right to have healthcare and be healthy? Where can I find this right and where exactly does it state the GOV is responsible to provide it?

Any you're talking about others being ridiculous.
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Old 05-29-2009, 01:20 PM
 
Location: I currently exist only in a state of mind. one too complex for geographic location.
4,175 posts, read 5,527,438 times
Reputation: 669
Quote:
Originally Posted by padcrasher View Post
Universal healthcare is cheaper and it covers everyone.

In 2008, the United States will spend 17 percent of its gross domestic product (GDP) on health care. It is projected that the percentage will reach 20 percent by 2017.1
Although nearly 46 million Americans are uninsured, the United States spends more on health care than other industrialized nations, and those countries provide health insurance to all their citizens.3
Health care spending accounted for 10.9 percent of the GDP in Switzerland, 10.7 percent in Germany, 9.7 percent in Canada and 9.5 percent in France, according to the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development.4

NCHC | Facts About Healthcare - Health Insurance Costs (http://www.nchc.org/facts/cost.shtml - broken link)
yup, and you get what you pay for. all universal health care does is ensure that the middle class waits in line behind criminal aliens while the rich still get the best care. enjoy that.
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Old 05-29-2009, 01:21 PM
 
9,742 posts, read 9,973,069 times
Reputation: 2051
Quote:
Originally Posted by padcrasher View Post
Don't hold your breadth. This OP is known for rattling off some right wing myth she obtained from AM radio or worldnet daily then coming here to spread it. She doesn't bother with objective data to back up her claims. If the propaganda reinforces her ideology she just runs with it.
Extreme right-wingers hold a black-and-white worldview. They see the world in terms of good and evil, friend and enemy. It fits right in with the fundamentalist religious worldview.

Facts are irrelevant. What matters is the "enemy." Find an enemy, and extremists think they have found the cause. Eliminate the enemy, and extremists think they have found the cure.

The enemies here would be poor people (the stereotypical poor black family likely resides in the head of many), and in the case of tort reform, trial lawyers. Hatred is a fascinating emotion.
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Old 05-29-2009, 01:22 PM
 
13,180 posts, read 14,092,021 times
Reputation: 4547
Quote:
Originally Posted by 01Snake View Post
Just how is it a basic right to have healthcare and be healthy? Where can I find this right and where exactly does it state the GOV is responsible to provide it?

Any you're talking about others being ridiculous.
Learn English.

A "right" doesn't have to come from a legal document or Constitution.

right - Definition from the Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary[2]

I can claim a right that does not exist in US legal law. Many slaves, and blacks did this remember???? Women did this when they couldnt vote....remember????
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