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Old 06-05-2009, 08:53 PM
 
Location: Pinal County, Arizona
25,107 posts, read 37,213,284 times
Reputation: 4924

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Quote:
Originally Posted by geeoro View Post
Oh isee so it is NOT allowed. How come it is up and running ? This must mean that a UHC would be ok too. Don't give me this B/S about constitutional scholars. We are talking about the real world here and it is obvious that Govt run health schemes are and can be set up in the USA.
I would suggest you need to study the issues - in their totality.

MANY have complained for YEARS about the lack of constitutional authority for the Federal government to run social security - and later Medicare.

There may be some serious litigation in the future challenging the Constitutionally issue. We will wait and see.

As of a UHC - IF the Feds try a single payer MANDATORY health insurance plan - there WILL BE CHALLENGES - 22 plus states have passed resolutions to challenge - more are considering same. States like Arizona have passed laws that would PRE-EMPT Federal Authority (under the 10th) to mandate health insurance.

Inasmuch as you are very interested in this issue, I might suggest you consider taking a Constitutional Law Course at a University - It may give you a much better understanding of the United States Constitution (far different than the UK's). And, you may get a better understanding of Eminent Domain under the US Constitution as well.
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Old 06-05-2009, 08:55 PM
 
Location: Pinal County, Arizona
25,107 posts, read 37,213,284 times
Reputation: 4924
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sagran View Post
And yet, we have it.

Maybe your "Scholars" aren't so knowledgable...

Oh, they are knowledgeable - very much so.

The fact the Government passes something does not necessarily mean its legal or authorized (hence why many laws are found to be unconstitutional by the courts).
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Old 06-05-2009, 08:57 PM
 
Location: London UK & Florida USA
7,923 posts, read 8,376,366 times
Reputation: 2053
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greatday View Post
I would suggest you need to study the issues - in their totality.

MANY have complained for YEARS about the lack of constitutional authority for the Federal government to run social security - and later Medicare.

There may be some serious litigation in the future challenging the Constitutionally issue. We will wait and see.

As of a UHC - IF the Feds try a single payer MANDATORY health insurance plan - there WILL BE CHALLENGES - 22 plus states have passed resolutions to challenge - more are considering same. States like Arizona have passed laws that would PRE-EMPT Federal Authority (under the 10th) to mandate health insurance.

Inasmuch as you are very interested in this issue, I might suggest you consider taking a Constitutional Law Course at a University - It may give you a much better understanding of the United States Constitution (far different than the UK's). And, you may get a better understanding of Eminent Domain under the US Constitution as well.
As i am the novice and you are the expert on the bill of rights can you show me the paragraph in the tenth amendment that explicitly prohibits the setting up of a Govt health care scheme.
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Old 06-05-2009, 08:59 PM
 
Location: Pinal County, Arizona
25,107 posts, read 37,213,284 times
Reputation: 4924
Quote:
Originally Posted by geeoro View Post
As i am the novice and you are the expert on the bill of rights can you show me the paragraph in the tenth amendment that explicitly prohibits the setting up of a Govt health care scheme.
I would suggest what IS NOT in the 10th is the key - Have you ever read the 10th Amendment Geeoro?
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Old 06-05-2009, 09:02 PM
 
Location: London UK & Florida USA
7,923 posts, read 8,376,366 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greatday View Post
I would suggest what IS NOT in the 10th is the key - Have you ever read the 10th Amendment Geeoro?
I have asked for you to show me where the 10th amendment STOPS the govt setting up a UHC. I am really not interested in playing silly games Greatday. Either you can show me where you get your assumptions from or admit that there is nothing in the Constitution to Stop Govt funded healthcare.
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Old 06-05-2009, 09:03 PM
 
Location: London UK & Florida USA
7,923 posts, read 8,376,366 times
Reputation: 2053
and YES i have read the tenth amendment!
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Old 06-05-2009, 09:09 PM
 
Location: London UK & Florida USA
7,923 posts, read 8,376,366 times
Reputation: 2053
Are you going to show me anything to back up your claims Greatday?
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Old 06-05-2009, 09:11 PM
 
Location: Pinal County, Arizona
25,107 posts, read 37,213,284 times
Reputation: 4924
Quote:
Originally Posted by geeoro View Post
I have asked for you to show me where the 10th amendment STOPS the govt setting up a UHC. I am really not interested in playing silly games Greatday. Either you can show me where you get your assumptions from or admit that there is nothing in the Constitution to Stop Govt funded healthcare.
Here is the 10th Amendment Geeoro:

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people.

Now, the legal issue is, there is no place in the US Constitution that allows for the Government to set up a UHC plan. Hence why the suggestion of a Constitutional Amendment might be needed.

The 10th CLEARLY states that, if it isn't in the Constitution, then, the power is delegated to the States. This is why a couple of States, Massachusetts most notable, have set up a State run health insurance plan. They LEGALLY have the right to do so because of their sovereignty from the federal Government.

IF the people of the United States want the Government to have the power to MANDATE health insurance, and if that MANDATED health insurance is going to emanate from the Federal Government, the Federal Government MUST have the Constitutional Authority to do so - AGAIN, why many legal eagles suggest proffering an Amendment to the Constitution that, if ratified by the States, would give that legal authority to the Federal Government.

Although you are not a United States Citizen at this time, would you support proffering a Constitutional Amendment that would give the Federal Government the power to estabish a mandated health care / insurance system in the United States?
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Old 06-05-2009, 09:17 PM
 
Location: Florida
221 posts, read 207,169 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greatday View Post
Here is the 10th Amendment Geeoro:

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people.

Now, the legal issue is, there is no place in the US Constitution that allows for the Government to set up a UHC plan. Hence why the suggestion of a Constitutional Amendment might be needed.

The 10th CLEARLY states that, if it isn't in the Constitution, then, the power is delegated to the States. This is why a couple of States, Massachusetts most notable, have set up a State run health insurance plan. They LEGALLY have the right to do so because of their sovereignty from the federal Government.

IF the people of the United States want the Government to have the power to MANDATE health insurance, and if that MANDATED health insurance is going to emanate from the Federal Government, the Federal Government MUST have the Constitutional Authority to do so - AGAIN, why many legal eagles suggest proffering an Amendment to the Constitution that, if ratified by the States, would give that legal authority to the Federal Government.

Although you are not a United States Citizen at this time, would you support proffering a Constitutional Amendment that would give the Federal Government the power to estabish a mandated health care / insurance system in the United States?
There is no need to amend the constitution to enable healthcare. Geeoro is right that the Govt. has already set up a Govt run health care system without breaking the amendments.
If the Scholars or anyone else feels that a UHC is unconstitutional then they would have objected to medicaid or medicare.
What you have shown Gday does not show anything to back up your claims.
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Old 06-05-2009, 09:21 PM
 
Location: Pinal County, Arizona
25,107 posts, read 37,213,284 times
Reputation: 4924
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tambintime View Post
There is no need to amend the constitution to enable healthcare. Geeoro is right that the Govt. has already set up a Govt run health care system without breaking the amendments.
If the Scholars or anyone else feels that a UHC is unconstitutional then they would have objected to medicaid or medicare.
What you have shown Gday does not show anything to back up your claims.
Actually, many have objected over the years about Social Security and later Medicare.

And I will respectfully disagree with you in that, IF the Federal Government tries to MANDATE health insurance through a Government program, it will be legally challenged by a majority of states.

Any number of states are also passing legislation to allow their citizens the right to opt out of any such mandated federal system.

This is one of the reasons that the Congress with not pass changes in the health care system that would MANDATE insurance for everyone - Any changes will allow health insurance to be VOLUNTARY.

BTW, would YOU support putting the issue of a UHC to a vote of the people??
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