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Old 06-03-2009, 09:50 AM
 
Location: Dallas, TX
31,765 posts, read 26,884,682 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greatday View Post
If the actual goal is to make access to health insurance more affordable, there are actions that can (and will) be taken to accomplish this goal.
No, the goal for every American should be that he/she doesn't pay into a system that is being pocketed for profits. Instead they pay the minimum necessary for their own cause, and to get the services they deserve. That they can actually pay for services, not for billion dollar executive bonuses. That they can actually get themselves covered by doing their part, as opposed to hoping an insurance company will do them a favor by affording them insurance.
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Old 06-03-2009, 11:03 AM
 
Location: Pinal County, Arizona
25,106 posts, read 37,028,142 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EinsteinsGhost View Post
No, the goal for every American should be that he/she doesn't pay into a system that is being pocketed for profits. Instead they pay the minimum necessary for their own cause, and to get the services they deserve. That they can actually pay for services, not for billion dollar executive bonuses. That they can actually get themselves covered by doing their part, as opposed to hoping an insurance company will do them a favor by affording them insurance.
I have not heard of any Health Insurance company execs getting a "billion dollar bonus". Do you have a source for this?

I thought the actual goal was to let Americans be able to acquire affordable health insurance if they want it.

I have not heard anything like what you wrote - and especially have not heard anything like you posted from the POTUS.
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Old 06-03-2009, 11:09 AM
 
Location: Hoboken
19,889 posts, read 17,527,312 times
Reputation: 3141
Quote:
Originally Posted by EinsteinsGhost View Post
No, the goal for every American should be that he/she doesn't pay into a system that is being pocketed for profits. Instead they pay the minimum necessary for their own cause, and to get the services they deserve. That they can actually pay for services, not for billion dollar executive bonuses. That they can actually get themselves covered by doing their part, as opposed to hoping an insurance company will do them a favor by affording them insurance.

I am in healthcare do you want to deny me the right to make a living? How much should I make? If you want to cap my salary, may I could cap yours?

I don't know any executive in health care that makes a billion dollars.
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Old 06-03-2009, 01:00 PM
 
Location: Prepperland
15,687 posts, read 11,454,007 times
Reputation: 12542
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
Edited due to copyright concerns.
Why, how sweet... But you're wrong.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
Your rant, focused as it is on supposed abuse of the system by consumers, is off-base. It is not over-use by consumers that is causing costs to rise. Whenever one hears about insurance fraud being committed, it is not the lowly consumer who is asking for too many services. It's usually a scam within an office.

This diatribe, which I am certain is lifted from somewhere, shows a complete lack of knowledge of the health care professions.
Great slanting - shows intense hostility!
[] No, it's not "abuse by consumers NOW", but the abuse by some consumers under a single payer government insurance scam - ah - I mean program.
[] As a former recipient of the glorious Socialist health care system for paupers (i.e, poor), I can vouch that it is (expletive deleted) bad. The bone specialist who put a cast on my young child's broken leg put it on WRONG. Of course, he was on-call, and it was a holiday - perhaps he was DRINKING.
[] I may lack a complete knowledge of the health care profession, but I think your attack represents an intense reaction from what you've read. Does it hit too close to home?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
You want to go back to the days of snake-oil salesmen? Fine. Go to any third-world country. You'll get most of the above there. Of course, your life expectancy may drop, you may die in childbirth, your kids might die before adutlhood, by by gosh, there'd be no 'government interference'.
[] The difference between a government mandated monopoly and competing medical treatment systems is not "going back to snake-oil".... unless you're part of the Allopathic special interest group.
You ARE part of allopathy, aren't you?
[] Life expectancy and medical care are sometimes inversely proportional, when "physician imposed" harm is involved.
Iatrogenic:
Due to the action of a physician or a therapy the doctor prescribed.
Iatrogenesis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
In the United States, from 120,000 to 225,000 deaths per year may be attributed in some part to iatrogenesis.
[] In case you misread the post, I stated that the government would be the records keeper for all who have established their credentials, via testing and training, to perform more complicated medical services. I do not hold with the notion that care givers be required to have a license to kill.
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Old 06-03-2009, 01:06 PM
 
Location: fla
1,507 posts, read 2,917,175 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blind Sniper View Post
I'm not taking an R or D stance on this. The system is broke, period. Only the rich and the welfare poor get good health care while the middle class covers the cost for others while we do not "qualify" for good care ourselves. What good is health insurance and why does it exist? I pay in thousands per year so they can exclude or deny anything that I might need them for in the first place. I'm having to back off of my "it's socialism" views on this one. Health care should be a right not a priveledge. The left wants to nationalize and the right only wants to prove the left is wrong. What is the solution?
the only part of your statement that will continue to ring true is that excellent health care will continue to be available ONLY TO THE WEALTHY
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Old 06-03-2009, 01:11 PM
 
Location: On the Ohio River in Western, KY
3,388 posts, read 6,189,103 times
Reputation: 3361
Quote:
Originally Posted by I_Love_LI_but View Post

As for the welfare poor, actually I don't think they get better care and nowhere near like that of the rich because of the simple fact that many health care providers will not accept Medicaid because the reimbursements are too low. I think that 99% of dentists, for example, will not take Medicaid. So you may have "free health insurance" while on welfare, but if almost nobody wants to take your plan, what can you do?
Every hospital in the country HAS to accept a medical card, if they have ever taken a penny in Gov funding (from what I understand); also they have to treat you no matter what, even if you are broke and can't pay.

What I think we should do is get rid of exorbitant insurance costs (IMO get rid of insurance altogether!), and bring down healthcare costs again. It seems to me that since insurance got in the mix, the costs have increased while the care has decreased.

Also, get rid of stupid medical lawsuits. I know there are cases where a Dr. SHOULD be held accountable for their actions or lack of action (I myself was given an opportunity to sue a Dr. for a rock solid malpractice case, but didn't.), but being sued left and right for BS, is uncalled for.

Whatever happened to Dr.'s helping patients out, and exchange for a bottle of cough syrup and a few antibiotics, you got milk and eggs, or your lawn cared for, or a free babysitter, or some thing like that?! I know Dr.'s can't survive on favors alone (nor should they have to), but what's wrong with it on occasion, especially if you know that person NEEDS medical attention but just can't afford it?

My Uncle (RIP) was an "old school" Dr., and my only Dr. until he retired right before his death. Up until 6 months before he retired (a year before death) he still made HOUSECALLS! Housecalls! What Dr. does that these days!? He also donated his time and experience to people in our area that couldn't afford medical treatment any other way. He cared more about his oath, than his bank account.
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Old 06-03-2009, 01:14 PM
 
Location: Prepperland
15,687 posts, read 11,454,007 times
Reputation: 12542
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
Most countries with UHC have higher life-expectancies, lower infant/maternal mortiality rates, and better overall health stats than the US does. The size of the US is irrelevant.
Infant Mortality and Life Expectancy for Selected Countries, 2007 — Infoplease.com
Infant death (per 1000 births)
U.S.A..... 6.4
U.K........ 5
Canada...4.6
OMG - 1.4 MORE than U.K.!!!!

However, in contrast with other nations, that statistic is not impressive.
South Africa ... 59
Russia .......11
Mexico.......19 (Hmmm, perhaps that is why they seek to have anchor babies in the USA - higher chance of living?)
Angola.....184
China.......22.1
Brazil.......27.6

Life expectancy
U.S.A.......78
U.K..........78.4
OMG - 0.4 years more life if in the U.K.!
Canada....80.3

Switzerland .. 80.6
S.Korea..........77.2

Last edited by jetgraphics; 06-03-2009 at 01:23 PM..
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Old 06-03-2009, 01:22 PM
 
Location: Prepperland
15,687 posts, read 11,454,007 times
Reputation: 12542
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
Insurance companies are a sort of private tax-collection system with a profit motive built in, for the most part. ... I have no illusions that any kind of UHC system would be any cheaper than what we have now. I think one reason we spend more on health care in this country is that we simply are buying more health care.
"Unsurance" companies are an abomination, seeking to make a profit off suffering humanity.
They're responsible for siphoning off money from patients that should have gone to health care givers, imposed mountains of paperwork, turned the Physician's office into a bureaucratic paper pushing experience.
(I can recall the days that the typical office had only the physician - or perhaps 1 nurse and 1 physician. Today, you have receptionists, insurance form managers, office managers, screeners, assistants to the assistants - who all have to be paid by the customer.)

And malpractice insurance / tort is one of the reasons behind excessive testing - to prevent lawsuits.

The whole 'license to do harm' is a twisted scam, forcing practitioners to only give "Approved" treatment - or else!
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Old 06-03-2009, 01:32 PM
 
6,893 posts, read 7,615,190 times
Reputation: 3803
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greatday View Post
I have not heard of any Health Insurance company execs getting a "billion dollar bonus". Do you have a source for this?

I thought the actual goal was to let Americans be able to acquire affordable health insurance if they want it.

I have not heard anything like what you wrote - and especially have not heard anything like you posted from the POTUS.
"On 15 October 2006, it was announced that McGuire would step down immediately as chairman and director of United Health, and step down as CEO on 1 December 2006 due to his involvement in the employee stock options scandal. Simultaneously, it was announced that he would be replaced as CEO by Stephen Hemsley, who has served as President and COO and is a member of the board of directors. McGuire's exit compensation from UnitedHealth, expected to be around $1.1 billion, would be the largest golden parachute in the history of corporate America."

William W. McGuire - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Scrushy found guilty of fraud charges - FierceHealthcare
UnitedHealth Group Defrauded 100 Million Americans | America For Purchase
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Old 06-03-2009, 01:32 PM
 
Location: Dallas, TX
31,765 posts, read 26,884,682 times
Reputation: 12294
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greatday View Post
I have not heard of any Health Insurance company execs getting a "billion dollar bonus". Do you have a source for this?
United Healthcare CEO William McGuire. (See above)

Regardless, explain to me why should I be forced (or settle) to pay for profitability of the middlemen that I could do without?

Quote:
Originally Posted by shorebaby View Post
I am in healthcare do you want to deny me the right to make a living? How much should I make? If you want to cap my salary, may I could cap yours?
Pathetic reason to oppose a plan that promises to save lives, jobs, from bankruptcies and reduce the cost of healthcare in this country, including the half baked reality that is medicare/medicaid. And if you must continue to be selfish, that you want to oppose for job security reasons, be my guest, but don't expect others to feel bad for you.

Besides, there is no reason to believe that people can't buy private insurance. They do in countries where UHC exists (which is the entire developed world, and many developing countries). It would be only the business you're defending that puts your job at risk.

Last edited by EinsteinsGhost; 06-03-2009 at 01:41 PM..
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