Israel hopes Obama speech will lead to peace (unemployment, interviews, poll)
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If they (Israel) pulled back, and If a Palestinian state was created and then that state attacked Israel then Israel would be in the right to retaliate. If there was a state with a political structure overseeing the state of Palestine and that state was controlled by the Palestinians there would be some sort of self determination. A political power structures main goal always is self preservation. It would be in there best interest to control there population are risk getting removed by other countries...including Israel. This is a rational plan and is not novel.
Do you think this is what an average Israeli wants though? I've seen polls that show that the majority of Israeli's aren't in favor of giving up any land whatsoever and they are also strongly against creating a Palesitinian State. They reflected this sentiment in their recent presidential election. The winner believed like this and the loser (who lose by a very small margin mind you) believed in pulling back the borders and recognizing Palestine.
I've seen polls that show that the majority of Israeli's aren't in favor of giving up any land whatsoever and they are also strongly against creating a Palesitinian State.
What polls? WHAT'S YOUR SOURCE?
I had thought that we may have started a rational discussion here (although not with this poster). Maybe we can get back to it.
What polls? WHAT'S YOUR SOURCE?
I had thought that we may have started a rational discussion here (although not with this poster). Maybe we can get back to it.
How is this NOT contributing to a rational discussion?
Headline: What Obama failed to understand, or refused to publicly identify Text: Most of the Muslim world refuses to accept the legitimacy of a Jewish state in the Islamic expanse....full text.
From another major Jewish newspaper (Haaretz) in 2007:
Headline: Israel doesn't want peace Text: The moment of truth has arrived, and it has to be said: Israel does not want peace. The arsenal of excuses has run out, and the chorus of Israeli rejection already rings hollow. Until recently, it was still possible to accept the Israeli refrain that "there is no partner" for peace and that "the time isn't right" to deal with our enemies. Today, the new reality before our eyes leaves no room for doubt and the tired refrain that "Israel supports peace" has been left shattered.
Goes to show that neither side really wants peace which was my original point.
Headline: What Obama failed to understand, or refused to publicly identify Text: Most of the Muslim world refuses to accept the legitimacy of a Jewish state in the Islamic expanse....full text.
From another major Jewish newspaper (Haaretz) in 2007:
Headline: Israel doesn't want peace Text: The moment of truth has arrived, and it has to be said: Israel does not want peace. The arsenal of excuses has run out, and the chorus of Israeli rejection already rings hollow. Until recently, it was still possible to accept the Israeli refrain that "there is no partner" for peace and that "the time isn't right" to deal with our enemies. Today, the new reality before our eyes leaves no room for doubt and the tired refrain that "Israel supports peace" has been left shattered.
Goes to show that neither side really wants peace which was my original point.
I don't get it.
Your link to the Jerusalem Post simply goes to an individual analyst's criticism of some points in Obama's speech. There are other articles in Israeli newspapers which laud Obama's speech. I don't get the point.
Your second "source" is a link to an opinion piece written two years ago by a left-wing contributor. It only illustrates that Israel is a democratic country which allows freedom of speech. BTW, is there a Palestinian counterpart?
As to your final statement that neither side wants peace, you may have ample evidence as to Palestinians' opinions, but citing these two articles proves nothing about the majority of Israelis. Here's something that does: Most Israelis support uprooting West Bank settler outposts: poll | Top News
I wish there were a poll of Palestinians that showed they would make the necessary changes for peace. Can anyone cite one?
There would be a hostile, Iranian-supported state a few miles from Tel Aviv (and everyplace else in Israel). It would be impossible to defend Israel's population centers effectively. No country in the world would do that to itself.
What about the hostile, global Zionist-supported state that's a few miles from Palestinian population centers (and everyone else around them)? It's obvious today that the Palestinians have no possible way to defend themselves, or their families, or their land from what has proven to be an aggressive, hostile, and acquisitive regime: Israel.
Your link to the Jerusalem Post simply goes to an individual analyst's criticism of some points in Obama's speech. There are other articles in Israeli newspapers which laud Obama's speech. I don't get the point.
Your second "source" is a link to an opinion piece written two years ago by a left-wing contributor. It only illustrates that Israel is a democratic country which allows freedom of speech. BTW, is there a Palestinian counterpart?
As to your final statement that neither side wants peace, you may have ample evidence as to Palestinians' opinions, but citing these two articles proves nothing about the majority of Israelis. Here's something that does: Most Israelis support uprooting West Bank settler outposts: poll | Top News
I wish there were a poll of Palestinians that showed they would make the necessary changes for peace. Can anyone cite one?
I don't get it.
After reading the article you posted a link to I don't think it helps make your point at all.
Over 50 % of the voters voted in an Israeli president recently that does NOT support the creation of a Palestinian State or pullback from any settlements. The poll results that this one article showed claim that over 55% of Israeli's favor the creation of a Palestinian State.
Citing this one article proves nothing about the majority of Israelis.
This is the doomsday self fulfilling prophecy nonsense that i hope dimishes and dies. I'm sure god and Jesus wants us to kill one another to save one another - Nonsense! This is what I despise about the ideology you are relaying - that a book written 2000 years ago seals our fate and we are powerless to change it - we need some divine intervention to do it for us.
I hope that idea never comes either. However, the belief is that when the Temple of the Rock is destroyed and a Jewish synagogue is built there instead that this will be the assign of the apocolypse/Armageddon and the second coming of Christ.
They very well may be right because the rock under this temple is the holiest of holy sites to muslims and could very well lead to an all out war in the middle east if this site is ever destroyed.
I find it intersting to read that at the end of the 6 day war in 1967 that an Israeli general wanted to blow up the site but he was overruled because a greater war was not in their best interest.
Someone (you know who) will ask for sources on this info but it's easy enough to find on your own. I just find it amazing that it's been 2,000 years and we're still working on peace in the middle east. Unfortunately, I don't think it's ever gonna happen.
I hope that idea never comes either. However, the belief is that when the Temple of the Rock is destroyed and a Jewish synagogue is built there instead that this will be the assign of the apocolypse/Armageddon and the second coming of Christ.
They very well may be right because the rock under this temple is the holiest of holy sites to muslims and could very well lead to an all out war in the middle east if this site is ever destroyed.
I find it intersting to read that at the end of the 6 day war in 1967 that an Israeli general wanted to blow up the site but he was overruled because a greater war was not in their best interest.
Someone (you know who) will ask for sources on this info but it's easy enough to find on your own. I just find it amazing that it's been 2,000 years and we're still working on peace in the middle east. Unfortunately, I don't think it's ever gonna happen.
After reading all of the posts here, and doing my own research I have come to the conclusion that there is little that we the U.S. can do to achieve peace in the middle east. The people there are still stuck in a tribalist, religous battle that they will have to work out themselves. If history has taught us anything, it has taught us they we can't impress our moral beliefs in the Middle East...see, Crusades.
My conclusion is to get out of the middle east and stop throwing money into the money pit there. The best thing that we could do is stop buying oil from the Middle East. This is the biggest money maker. Without the sell of oil they would be back to the stone ages and then would have to learn to be productive on their own.
We should completely get out, pull our troops out stop giving aid and military technology to the Middle East including Israel and divert that money to alternative forms of energy. Let them do what they want to each other. If they desire to kill each other, it will give them less time to come here.
After reading all of the posts here, and doing my own research I have come to the conclusion that there is little that we the U.S. can do to achieve peace in the middle east. The people there are still stuck in a tribalist, religous battle that they will have to work out themselves. If history has taught us anything, it has taught us they we can't impress our moral beliefs in the Middle East...see, Crusades.
My conclusion is to get out of the middle east and stop throwing money into the money pit there. The best thing that we could do is stop buying oil from the Middle East. This is the biggest money maker. Without the sell of oil they would be back to the stone ages and then would have to learn to be productive on their own.
We should completely get out, pull our troops out stop giving aid and military technology to the Middle East including Israel and divert that money to alternative forms of energy. Let them do what they want to each other. If they desire to kill each other, it will give them less time to come here.
That would be a great idea if you forget about the Nukes!
That would be a great idea if you forget about the Nukes!
The nukes are actually the best deterrent. At present, the ony country that has the ability to hit the U.S. is Israel from a sub. If any country hit us, we could totally end their existance. They of course know that. That is the best reason to not send a nuke our way. Besides if we are not meddling in their affairs why would they care about us. Please don't give me that they hate our way of life crap so they want to kill us.
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