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Old 06-06-2009, 02:41 AM
 
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I dont get why unions and religions arent held to the same rules that we so choose a business to follow...after all they receive money...they they have employees and have payrolls?
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Old 06-06-2009, 03:03 AM
 
Location: I think my user name clarifies that.
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What do you mean?

Maybe I'm just missing it, but I don't see unions and religions/churches as even similar.
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Old 06-06-2009, 03:41 AM
 
1,780 posts, read 2,226,324 times
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Well think about it...unions and religions have similar practices as most business's. They have customers, employees, tax id numbers, payroll, advertisements, frequent member meetings, products or services that they offer. So how are they not a business and held to the same rules?
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Old 06-06-2009, 03:50 AM
 
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I agree these types of organizations should be held to a higher standard then they are.
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Old 06-06-2009, 08:53 AM
 
Location: Victoria TX
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Because neither is a for-profit enterprise.
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Old 06-06-2009, 09:12 AM
 
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You might as well ask, "Why aren't arts companies or private schools or charities held to the same standards as businesses?" Those organizations also have employees and offices as well. But I guess you singled out unions and churches because you don't like them.

I sit on the vestry of our thriving Episcopal church, and I can tell you with certainty that the priests are paid a pittance compared to what they would earn in the private sector. In fact, two of our priests underwent huge personal sacrifice, leaving careers in banking and insurance in order to devote three years to seminary and more years in service to smaller churches--a 60- to 70-hour-a-week commitment. Further, every single dime of our tithes are spoken for in the form of charitable organizations, expenses (You wouldn't believe how much it costs to run a 2,000-member church, even when you cut costs to the bone), and upkeep to the grounds. In the occasional event that we have a surplus, that money goes into a foundation for the express purpose of ensuring the maintenance of our 120-year-old sanctuary. And, believe me, having replaced a roof and shored up some foundation problems in the past three years, it's never enough.

And if you are going to hold churches to the same standard as a business, then let me ask a question: What business devotes 20% of its revenue to helping the homeless and the indigent? What organization provides literally thousands and thousands of hours of free labor to various charitable organizations, whether by teaching GED courses for single mothers, caring for the homeless or taking meals to elderly shut-ins? What business has built a clinic in Haiti that gets staffed and supplied by its own members at their own expense? For those are just a few of the things that go on in our church.

In short, the facile comparisons between a business and a church--or any other non-profit organization--simply do not hold up to scrutiny.

Last edited by cpg35223; 06-06-2009 at 09:24 AM..
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Old 06-06-2009, 10:11 AM
 
Location: Pinal County, Arizona
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fracturedman View Post
Well think about it...unions and religions have similar practices as most business's. They have customers, employees, tax id numbers, payroll, advertisements, frequent member meetings, products or services that they offer. So how are they not a business and held to the same rules?
IMO, your post / question is very unclear as to what issue you are trying to get an answer for

What "same rules" are you referring to?
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Old 06-06-2009, 10:19 AM
 
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I can't speak for unions as I have no idea how they are taxed, but they are definately "for profit" and also are a very high paying organization.

As for churches, it all depends. If the church is running a for profit business (bookstore, day care...) they pay taxes like any other business. If not, they still have to legally qualify as a not for profit company or a non profit company to get tax breaks- just like any other business. Most have that status, but not all. The churches where I have been a part of leadership have clearly not been profit centers and their excess money went to help the needy.
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Old 06-06-2009, 11:20 AM
 
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I am not saying that churches dont do good things. Heck even some unions do good things. And to answer cpg's question, any place that has an influence such as private schools and thing you mentions should be. We all put business's on such high standards these days, everyone wants them to give everything away and still expect to stay in business. People expect these business's to do what we tell them to do. Running a business is just as hard as running a church if not harder. Churches arent controlled by outside parties other than the government, while business's are.
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Old 06-06-2009, 11:22 AM
 
Location: Pinal County, Arizona
25,106 posts, read 37,157,456 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fracturedman View Post
I am not saying that churches dont do good things. Heck even some unions do good things. And to answer cpg's question, any place that has an influence such as private schools and thing you mentions should be. We all put business's on such high standards these days, everyone wants them to give everything away and still expect to stay in business. People expect these business's to do what we tell them to do. Running a business is just as hard as running a church if not harder. Churches arent controlled by outside parties other than the government, while business's are.
I'm sorry - the above makes absolutely no sense.

Exactly what are you asking for? Exactly what is your point?
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