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Old 06-07-2009, 06:38 PM
 
Location: Michigan
5,376 posts, read 5,328,525 times
Reputation: 1633

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Quote:
Originally Posted by chielgirl View Post
Yeah, I never liked the idea of NAFTA and couldn't understand why Clinton signed it.
Then again, not being an economist, I'm surprised that people couldn't see that bank deregulation and the ridiculousness of McMansions and inflated housing costs wouldn't lead the way to big trouble.
They didn't see it then, and they don't see it now.........


.........they just keep saying "It's Obama's fault".
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Old 06-07-2009, 08:15 PM
 
6,205 posts, read 7,426,926 times
Reputation: 3563
Am I wrong, or were American born employees a minority at MS, even before Obama? Am I wrong to assume that 25%(!) of MS employees are located in India and out of those employed in the US a large portion are foreigners? And these policies are in place many, many years?
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Old 06-07-2009, 09:13 PM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,052 posts, read 84,174,115 times
Reputation: 27718
MS, like the other big internationals use plenty of offshore work. They just don't want to pay the taxes on them so they are threatening to offshore even more. Well it's going to happen tax or no tax.
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Old 06-07-2009, 09:15 PM
 
Location: Hoboken
19,890 posts, read 18,694,677 times
Reputation: 3146
Quote:
Originally Posted by RedNC View Post
They've been moving jobs overseas and bringing in foreigners to under pay them for years. I haven't talked to an American at their tech support since the 80's. They have enjoyed decades of free QA support from all their loyal techie followers and yet they want to avoid paying taxes in the country that allowed them to prosper. Does that bloated AH really think MS would have been able to grow to the size it has in India? I doubt anyone would have even heard of MS if it had started overseas. I can't believe a company that makes so much money is so opposed to paying their fair share of taxes.
So what is their fair share of taxes?
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Old 06-08-2009, 03:24 PM
 
6,205 posts, read 7,426,926 times
Reputation: 3563
Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyTexan View Post
MS, like the other big internationals use plenty of offshore work. They just don't want to pay the taxes on them so they are threatening to offshore even more. Well it's going to happen tax or no tax.
Well said!
I understand that, but those opposing Obama's policies do anything they can to prove that US will suffer a catastrophe for even a slight increase in taxes.
That may or may not be true, but the way they rationalize it is pitiful.
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Old 06-08-2009, 03:26 PM
 
117 posts, read 139,026 times
Reputation: 56
He's bluffing!

Donald Trump said he'd leave NY because of high taxes but does anyone expect him to do it?
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Old 06-08-2009, 03:35 PM
 
3,292 posts, read 4,461,273 times
Reputation: 822
Quote:
Originally Posted by oberon_1 View Post
Am I wrong, or were American born employees a minority at MS, even before Obama? Am I wrong to assume that 25%(!) of MS employees are located in India and out of those employed in the US a large portion are foreigners? And these policies are in place many, many years?
MS is cheap and it is reflected in their software product quality.
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Old 06-08-2009, 03:51 PM
 
Location: Dallas, TX
31,767 posts, read 28,724,391 times
Reputation: 12341
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hesster View Post
This. Saying the proposed taxes would cause MS to move jobs overseas is like saying the taxes would cause fish to breathe water. One of Microsoft's mottos in the mid 2000s was "What jobs can we outsource overseas today?" I'm sure that's still the case...
And its not just Microsoft. The telecom giant I work for has had hiring freeze in the USA since 2003, has laid off hundreds of workers here (my team of 26 Americans has shrunk down to just three) while hiring almost 2000 people in India, and that's during low taxes.

To think taxes are buying into a corporatists' rhetoric. In fact, it was only in the 1990s that my company hired in America (I was one of them) and brought back jobs from India that it had sent in the 1980s.

Or, as one should be able to see... it is not taxes stupid, its cost of hiring. Unless Americans start settling for the same cost of living as they do in countries like India. One programmer here can be replaced by 4-5 programmers in India for the same amount that goes into salary. Besides, they don't even have to worry about providing health care insurance either! And people think it is about taxes. How naive.
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Old 06-08-2009, 04:05 PM
 
Location: Washington
844 posts, read 1,276,323 times
Reputation: 333
A low and cheap threat. WA has put up with too much of microsofts crap as it is. He wants to move MS offshore? I say fine, let him. When the antitrust suits start rearing their heads again over W7, and apple finally makes the big 'osx to pc' jump that has been anticipated for years, lets see his thoughts then.

Honestly, a company that has gotten away with as much crap as Microsoft has should have no input into the way the country is run, especially after the tremendous screw over that was Vista, its systematic-yet-still-slower-and-inferior to XP replacement W7, and their releasing a major video game console with inferior parts that break down after a short number of uses.

Lets not all forget this is the same ballmer who rolled back a lot of the 'job security' practices Microsoft workers once enjoyed, limited stock options, and was known to underhandedly and actively support releasing flawed versions of windows (vista) which wouldnt work on the laptops that they forced retailers to include inside them.

Before microsoft (or at least in its earlier days), Seattle was a much more affordable place to live, with better traffic, and without the large number of young condo owning techy's with insecure jobs. Now its practically another Los Angeles, a sprawling nightmare of traffic, unaffordability, and lofty employment prospects.
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Old 06-08-2009, 05:11 PM
 
Location: Orlando
105 posts, read 213,613 times
Reputation: 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by tindo80 View Post
Honestly, a company that has gotten away with as much crap as Microsoft has should have no input into the way the country is run, especially after the tremendous screw over that was Vista, its systematic-yet-still-slower-and-inferior to XP replacement W7, and their releasing a major video game console with inferior parts that break down after a short number of uses.

Lets not all forget this is the same ballmer who rolled back a lot of the 'job security' practices Microsoft workers once enjoyed, limited stock options, and was known to underhandedly and actively support releasing flawed versions of windows (vista) which wouldnt work on the laptops that they forced retailers to include inside them.
You are making your point crystal clear. However in the USA all kinds of people have input into the way the country is run. All kinds of actors and all kinds or reality show stars and even all kinds of non citizens and people outside of the USA have input.

Let them license in Ireland where there is socialized medicine and it takes about 10 years for those unions to break them. Support in India where they are happy to have the work and will be an exploding economy. And manufacture in Mexico which ought to be our 53rd state.

This is an example of executives getting huge salaries for what? For selling out on Americans'. What does this kind of gobbledygook mean:

“It’s just a question of how much will the Dow come down,” Ballmer said. “It’s not about companies anyway; we’re talking about shareholders.”

???????????????????????????

After all they can fall so low to be taken off the Dow like take Citigroup. They fell so low they got taken off the Dow since it wasn't about the company there either. And they are counting on everyone being so numb that we can't figure out what Citigroup was about. They fell so low and got replaced with Travelers whose motto is what? Insurance/Assurance companies motto's might be, "ask the actuaries"

Where are all these insurance companies licensed?
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